to wonder why Lent fasting has become so diluted?

[Wonderingwhyyy]

I was talking to a Christian who told me she fasts the traditional way in Lent. No food or water from sunrise to sunset. She was the first I had met who actually abstains from food and drink for a significant period of time.

Other Christians I know choose to give up one food e.g. chocolate, wine, tea, coffee. One Christian told me she gave up Facebook for Lent.

The Christian who said she fasted the traditional way told me she gained many benefits such as spiritual closeness to God, self discipline, greater self control.

It did make sense. Giving up Facebook doesn't seem likely to bring many benefits although may it did for that one person.

I wonder why it became diluted and whether Christianity has lost its followers by allowing most things it did not used to.

I agree. A local church may have closed but a person can still remain faithful in their day to day life.

I just looked this up - tombolas can be considered gambling and yoga has roots in Hinduism. Interesting, thank you.

In the Roman Catholic faith, because the 1962-1965 Vatican Council (Vatican II) changed the rules about fasting and abstinence, significantly diluting the strict rules that existed before.

Our local village C of E church now only has a handful of attendees. Some left because the Biblical teaching wasn't great and have gone to churches where it is better. The people who remain in the church are all elderly. It's such a shame, but if the biblical teaching is shallow, people can get moral teaching from secular sources.
We have lived in different counties and also spent 6 years abroad. Everywhere we lived, we looked for churches with good Biblical teaching and they were always well attended.

Because we are intelligent, educated, secular.

Not really. Because the New Testament says
'Let us not neglect meeting together, as some have made a habit, but let us encourage one another,....' Hebrews 10 v25
People who take faith in Jesus seriously and view the Bible seriously, always do their level best to go to a good church. And the great thing now, is that you can go on YouTube and find a church service which you can join in. I recommend Christchurch, Banstead....Jennyfields ( near Harrogate....Bradley Stoke Evangelical Church or Lansdown Church in Bournemouth.

We had school communion on a friday as I mentioned further up this thread (high C of E school) Fasting was not expected but it was certainly an option and there was a breakfast of milky coffee or tea and biscuits afterwards for those who wanted it. It was an occasion where students and staff mingled freely, no school matters were discussed and it was a lovely relaxed time.

@Tryonemoretime I couldn't agree more about the centrality of good Biblical teaching. One thing Catholics are (I think) really lucky with is that all of us worldwide use the same Lectionary - anyone who went to Sunday Mass anywhere on the planet this weekend heard about Joshua's men at Gilgal, Psalm 34, about us being ambassadors for Christ, and the parable of the two brothers.

We've been doing an 'explore the Sunday scriptures' thing for Lent - low takeup but enjoyed by the people who turn up. But we agreed that the little opportunities our priest has arranged for us to do out 'ambassador' thing - small change to add up to a little girl's school fees in Africa; Easter presents to buy for poor, mostly elderly, people in our town; Easter eggs for a bereaved children's support group have been really enjoyable - that's the thing I have seen a few children drag their parents into church to do together. There's a national level Lenten charity collection too, but the 'personal' ones feel special.

And that's why Vatican 2 decided to make fasting and other pious practices less central, and encourage other things, including the study of scripture and the care for those who need it.

2/10

Ooh! Ooh! Forgot to mention St Nicks near St Paul's. A brilliant church - mainly 20 - 40s. Great preaching by an enthusiastic vicar. And they have a coffee shop during the week for people to drop into.....

I quite like going to an early Mass fasting, but since the village 'Sunday' is celebrated on Saturday evening I'm only 'fasting' since lunch, which isn't quite the same. I do fast before the dawn Easter Sunday mass in the old graveyard. That's very special.

Correct. But as I said >2sd from the mean. Like your extreme fasting friend I expect.

I think that religion has fallen away because fairly recently, for the first time, in history, people can be free to not be religious and not have it affect their daily life. Employers can no longer require their staff to attend church, there is no longer the societal pressure that there was, prayer is no longer required in schools and pupils can be withdrawn from religious education, which, I understand is now usually multifaith anyway unless the school is a faith school. In my childhood, all the local primary schools were attached to local churches and school began and ended with prayers - assembly in the morning with a hymn and a short moment of "hands together, eyes closed" in the classroom before we went home for the day. I don't know if grace was said over school dinner because I didn't stay.

It's sad that bible stories aren't told in many primary schools. Our laws are based on the 10 commandments and unless one knows the Biblical accounts, a lot of Western art remains a mystery. I once had to write an essay on The Hundred Guilder Print by Rembrandt and knowledge of the New Testament made it a walk in the park for me.

Rembrandt featured in our exploration of this week's Gospel as well

I wouldn’t know when Lent started or finished, and don’t particularly care. I certainly don’t give anything up. Life is stressful enough!

Same!

Even the nuns at my religious school didn't mention anything about fasting, just giving up one thing.

I actually think giving up Facebook does take commitment and is beneficial if it's something you're addicted to or just do mindlessly.

Ah, now you can google! 🙄

Was it still called fasting?

She didn't manage to stay away from Facebook unfortunately. She said responding to messages on Facebook didn't count as using Facebook.

If you are not Christian then it is no surprise that you would not know.

There is a great book called the Comfort Crisis by Michael Easter. We actually become stronger and more resilient through embracing discomfort. Avoiding as much discomfort as possible is detrimental.

I had no idea that fasting was originally throughout the day. I always thought it was just to give up one thing like alcohol or chocolate.

in the mainstream western churches it wasn't.

what not even in the form of pancake day to easter eggs?

Oops. I was replying to someone and the quote has got lost. I now can't recall what the post was.

I say it because christ is not a surname but a title. A king such as Charles III, because the UK annoints its sovereigns still, is a 'christ'; it means 'annointed one'. Avoiding saying Jesus Christ makes the comment more objective, I am not claiming something that others will dispute, which may derail the rest of my argument.