To think these HMO's are depressing?

[ThePigandPear]

DP's sister rents out a small terraced house in an older area of town. Many of the homes there are neglected now, but up until only 6 or 7 years ago it was a lovely, quiet place. She has a long term tenant who is quite comfortable so no issues there.

The house has recently had new windows installed, doors and the back space remodelled recently, which DP helped out with, and whilst there we noticed that a good amount of the surrounding properties had been sold to landlords offering HMO's (houses of multiple occupation).

Most are in an awful state, with over 6-8 tenants in what were once two-up-two-down SMALL terraces. Bedrooms have been halved and probably now afford each tenant 5x10 ft of space. You can tell when this happens as a new, tiny window around 2ft sq will appear next to the existing window. Most have key safes jammed to the the front walls haphazardly, often up to 8 at a time. The yards are tiny and heaving with rubbish and disused furniture.

What saddened me was a few doors down from DP's sister's property there are a group of men living in dreadful conditions. We have met them several times and they are decent, hardworking people. Their rooms have one single bed and a small cupboard, no carpets or flooring, and no window coverings. For some time a resident was sleeping in a blanket in the floor with no bed at all.

I have no idea how these things are legal, most are overcrowded and as far as I knew, council's had stopped granting permissions for these small dwellings housing so many a few years ago. I presume they have decided to roll back on that :(

Is this common now? The streets around the area are becoming dirtier and filled with litter. No one is maintaining the surrounding infrastructure and council owned pathways and areas are overgrown and dangerous in parts. There is a canal running along the edge of the area, the gates having been smashed off and left there for over a year. Those who do try to get things done are left waiting.
These could be lovely homes otherwise, but there is definitely a sort of vulture-culture taking over, with no thought for people's wellbeing. Local rents are not low, either.

The going rate for “supported accommodation”is really high. There are some landlords who are on the cash grab and will maximise what profit they can make.
It’s very unfair but people are desperate for somewhere to live so will tolerate it.

They most certainly aren’t legal but is your council doing much to enforce the rules?

Report the disused furniture to the council - it's a health hazard and a fire hazard. If you suspect overcrowding in a property you can report that too.

'We have met them several times and they are decent, hardworking people. Their rooms have one single bed and a small cupboard,'

What is the nature of their work that they can't better themselves?

It isn't our council, but from what we can gather, no, they are not doing a thing.
It just seems as if we are getting used to such low and shitty standards nowadays and always having an excuse for it. It's just so depressing.

No doubt at some point DP's sister's tenant will want to leave. And I dare say the value of her property will have taken a huge slump. Many longer term tenants and owners have packed up and gone.

God knows, they are mostly immigrants who work long hours. I have no idea of their circumstances or how much they are struggling. They too care, and have tried to get the council to act but had no luck.

Each room can cost up to 5-6 hundred per month, which is dreadful for a badly maintained, uncarpeted space of a few feet. This is in the midlands, not London.

I would also beg the question, if housing costs are so high, how do people in such places magically better themselves?
An average single person dwelling will cost over £800PCM, yet you could buy one at auction for less than £70K.

I remember watching a programme about council houses being sold off under Right to Buy. Someone visited their old council house which had been converted into 6 bedsits. They said "This was our old kitchen" and it had become someone's entire home! They said council houses were built to replace slum landlords but they'd ended up being sold back to slum landlords as a result of Right to Buy. It's sad.

We have the opposite here, student housing used to be like that - the amount they were paying for small mouldy rooms and not even a front door because the front room had been converted into another bedroom. But now (15 years on) it's totally different, the landlords have had to up their game and instead of being £160 a month it's £160 a week and they are much nicer than most people's homes.

Yes, their savings are probably eaten up by rent for their crappy accommodation making it hard for them to "better themselves" Although I'm not sure that a hard working person is inferior in the first place to people who feel they have "bettered themselves"

Yes, it's definitely becoming worse.
I think suggesting that the residents are at fault for not bettering themselves is insanely ignorant.

DP's sister purchased that house in the early 2000's.
The entire area was modest, pretty and safe - wind chimes, outdoor seating, herb gardens, quiet.
Since that time, whenever a home has gone up for sale it has been snapped up by an out of town investor or overseas landlord and converted.
None of this is the fault of the residents, most of whom took off and never returned.

Really depressing. I think a lot of these houses are hosting poor people who've been trafficked and are now working 60+ hour weeks to pay back their "trafficker loans" and stuck in that horrible spiral.

I was thinking this. There is a modern slavery helpline for reporting if you think this might be the case.

What's the councils line on HMO?

In Manchester they all need planning permission.

They're a burden on areas because of the amount of non-standard domestic traffic they bring. A house full of unrelated adults will bring more noise and potential problems than a family.

Not sure but a few years ago they were trying to clamp down on it and denying applications. In the past 12 months it has really took off again.

I am familiar with the area but have not lived there.
Will mention these comments to DP's sister.

@thankyounextplease same situation here in Bath- we have a ton of these new mini student flats ( far too many) that are designer chic - and hence some of the old stone terrace houses in the main student area are suddenly appearing in right move looking like something off changing rooms!! Complete with new windows/doors /flash kitchens/bifolds etc- I’ve noticed a lot of the grim ones are being sold off and a friend of mine who is an EA told me it’s mainly families buying them to do up as many are quite big and our main student area has ‘good bones’ and very handy for town - we don’t have much of a market here though for masses of cheap and grim rooms or if I’m honest that many immigrants apart from those from Hong Kong’

I would sell up if I was her if I’m honest OP

Much of Supported accommodation is an absolute scandal. Hundreds a week for basically fuck all support.

Some of my son's co-workers (graduates in insurance!) are living in hostels or squalid "bed sit" type arrangements in house shares. It's grim. These are people relatively well paid for their age (new graduates) earning well over minimum wage, mostly around £30-£35k and they can't afford their own flats nor any decent house share arrangements. Tiny one bed flats in his city are £1.2k per month and even a room in a house share (if you can get one as they're rare as hen's teeth) can be £800-£900 per month. It's insane.

Single people on low/normal wages have been priced out of being able to live anywhere decent on their own.

DP's sister should do the same. If you are going to be a landlord, might as well maximise your profit. HMOs are perfectly legal

It’s awful op - presumably the council have licensed it too. We really need a lot more accommodation of all sorts

You're joking, right? Even single people on decent wages are priced out of living anywhere decent in a lot of places now. It's not just rent, everything has gone up, utilities, water, council tax, transport, etc. Some graduate co-workers at my son's top insurance firm are living in hostels!

5 x 10 feet would not meet the legal minimum bedroom size for an HMO. Although the legal minimum isn’t much better 😟 It is just 6.51 square metres.

If you back a hundred years you can see Slum areas were common. Too many people, in small properties. It was common in Slums for beds to be used on a shift basis.

Obviously I have no idea which ones are legal. But this is exactly the sort of place my council place people who have taken the advice 'wait to be evicted and the council will house you'. Including families. No private cooking facilities, shared bathrooms etc.

These HMOs are a national scandal.
Family homes becoming slums for profit.
Upwards of 8-10 adults living in what would have housed 2-3.
The facilities, sewerage, roads, parking, local transport, refuse collection simply isn't designed to accommodate that much people.
Landlords creaming it in, whilst pricing everyday working people out of the area.

I would personally make all HMOs illegal where there were multiple unrelated people living together unless there was a bedroom of a minimum size of 9sq m for each occupant plus a separate lounge and kitchen and at least 1 full bathroom for every 3 house occupants.

that should get rid of the worst offenders- mainly a load of greedy unscrupulous arses taking it in for minimum standards. It needs far stronger regulation - a lot of these average homes are suitable for 3 people at most and the really big ones for 4 or 5 max - above that as others have said it tends to attract mess, rubbish and general chaos

Your council will have a public register of HMOs. If they aren't on it (you should be able to check online) then report it.