To think these HMO's are depressing?

[ThePigandPear]

DP's sister rents out a small terraced house in an older area of town. Many of the homes there are neglected now, but up until only 6 or 7 years ago it was a lovely, quiet place. She has a long term tenant who is quite comfortable so no issues there.

The house has recently had new windows installed, doors and the back space remodelled recently, which DP helped out with, and whilst there we noticed that a good amount of the surrounding properties had been sold to landlords offering HMO's (houses of multiple occupation).

Most are in an awful state, with over 6-8 tenants in what were once two-up-two-down SMALL terraces. Bedrooms have been halved and probably now afford each tenant 5x10 ft of space. You can tell when this happens as a new, tiny window around 2ft sq will appear next to the existing window. Most have key safes jammed to the the front walls haphazardly, often up to 8 at a time. The yards are tiny and heaving with rubbish and disused furniture.

What saddened me was a few doors down from DP's sister's property there are a group of men living in dreadful conditions. We have met them several times and they are decent, hardworking people. Their rooms have one single bed and a small cupboard, no carpets or flooring, and no window coverings. For some time a resident was sleeping in a blanket in the floor with no bed at all.

I have no idea how these things are legal, most are overcrowded and as far as I knew, council's had stopped granting permissions for these small dwellings housing so many a few years ago. I presume they have decided to roll back on that :(

Is this common now? The streets around the area are becoming dirtier and filled with litter. No one is maintaining the surrounding infrastructure and council owned pathways and areas are overgrown and dangerous in parts. There is a canal running along the edge of the area, the gates having been smashed off and left there for over a year. Those who do try to get things done are left waiting.
These could be lovely homes otherwise, but there is definitely a sort of vulture-culture taking over, with no thought for people's wellbeing. Local rents are not low, either.

Honestly what do people expect? We don't have enough houses, and the ones we do have are half empty (an increasing issue). These HMOs are legal because the alternative is homelessness.
They do need better regulation in my opinion, but ultimately we're going to see a lot more of them until we do something about housing.

Not everyone wishes to make bank contributing to human misery and the creation of slums.
I also take that you consider yourself above people who rent, since that surely won't help anyone move forward in life.

What a tragic culture we have become, when all we have to brag about is the ownership of a small pile of bricks and a couple of oversized cars. I suppose you support diminishing education spending and world class public transport now that you no longer need it, too?

Not only empty, but also partially empty such as holiday homes, not just for your own use, but all the holiday lets, Air BNBs etc., that have taken huge numbers of homes out of the market, and which are also left empty for lots of the year, during the off peak seasons, empty days between lets, etc. I think it's time we massively increased taxation on ALL holiday homes, whether for your own use or for holiday lets. We need to start addressing the housing market problems and the profiteering. Building new homes really isn't the answer, especially if there are no controls as to what they're used for. Pointless if they're being bought by landlords to use as holiday lettings as it achieves nothing.

@Ablondiebutagoody
And giving this a touch more thought than I ought to, lol, I can also tell you that I have met people who share your views before: a somewhat shared attitude of the monied working class who despise their own background. I have never heard such sentiments outside of this cultural group. The belief that one ought to step on necks to pad out one's property portfolio generally goes hand in hand with the bootstrap mentality, one of the lesser charming traits of the upwardly mobile bog standard proletariat.

I didn't grow up in that world and happily don't share those 'values', thank god. If that makes me a snooty MC goody two shoes, I can't say that I am ashamed of it.

Yes, holiday homes, airbnbs are an issue. But a growing issue is the number of empty rooms in existing housing - it adds to an awful lot of wasted space. Unless people want to share, or have less for themselves, we do need new homes.

HMOs are just the bedsits of the past. London councils require you to get licensed such small rooms would not qualify.

They're really a lot worse in many cases, i.e. several mattresses on floors in bedrooms, so not just multiple occupancy, but multiple unrelated people in the same room.

Those in the black economy (tenants and landlords) are outside the scope of the rules and regulations which normal people comply with. They don't care about licenses etc.

We can't be allowed to forget the Chinese cockle pickers who died in Morecambe Bay. They were forced to live in absolute squalor, several in bunk beds and mattresses on floors to each bedroom. The police, council, even the local politicians, all knew what was going on but turned a blind eye until they couldn't hide any longer when the disaster happened, then suddenly they all claimed innocence and that they didn't know what was happening!

That's a lot of bizarre assumptions you are making. Education? Public transport?

We have net immigration of about a million people per year. We either build more houses, which we aren't, or subdivide existing ones. There are no other options.

Yet lots of people oppose more affordable or social housing being built. This is what you end up with because of the shortage of houses

There are other options. You reduce or end holiday lets, second homes, and re-purpose commercial property in low or no use. It will make a significant contribution towards the issue.

I'd also have far fewer people going to university if it was my choice, which would make a difference in some places.

Renters are the scum of the earth. Why should people have new housing built to rent near them? This is the attitude. Selfish and greedy. I’m all right Jack.

I think a lot of people who are here for work from abroad, stay in the cheapest possible accommodation so they can send money home.

There's an area near the city centre here full of big old Victorian houses. Some of them detached, most of them terraced. It used to be common for the larger ones to be carved up into flats. You could get three or four two bedroom flats out of one big house. But now a lot of them are HMOs with 10+ bedrooms. I saw an application for a 21 bed HMO approved not long ago.

Imagine the difference an extra 21 people is going to make to a terraced street. Even if only half of them drive that's an extra 10 cars to park. More rubbish for the bin men to collect. More people needing to use local services like the GP.

@Badbadbunny yes that aspect too has become a real issue- not sure how you can stop it apart from taxing the hell out of it

There are some decent HMO landlords providing good accommodation at reasonable prices. But a lot are just raking in the money from desperate people in my view, and ruining neighbourhoods in the process. I hate the way that TV programme Homes under the Hammer promotes these sorts of conversion and fawns on the landlords doing them.

OP, That HMO may not be legal so worth checking. There are fairly high standards for fire assessment for a start, as well as kitchens, bathrooms and room sizes.

I think more so since Brexit I would venture.

https://www.gov.uk/renting-out-a-property/houses-in-multiple-occupation-hmo

This is how HMOs are supposed to operate, but it's insanely easy to circumvent the "rules".

@JaneAustensCat I thought it was just me!! Yep all those ‘geezers’ salivating over turning a family home that needs a bit of work into 5 bed HMOs or 3 tiny grim flats-for as cheap as they can get away with and salivating over profits - boils my piss!!

I’d contact the council with photos of the debris and rubbish and report properties I thought were overcrowded. Nice of you to do something.. I doubt many would. It’s all sad and housing and council responsibility has to shit in so many areas..

Don't get me started on that programme! Cheap nasty conversions with tiny bedrooms and no storage but look - it now has a disgusting ensuite inside an old cupboard. No lounge any more as thats now designated a bedroom but no worries there's an 'open plan' kitchen/lounge" with room for a 2 seater sofa in the corner.

ON dodgy landlords - this family got fined massively but they are still up to their old tricks. I lived near one of their illegal HMO's at the time, it was sad. This is just one council, at least two others have also taken either father or son to court as well for same things in their boroughs.

https://www.theguardian.com/society/2021/feb/28/brent-rogue-landlord-pay-back-illegal-london-housing

I once went to view quite a posh detached rental place in Brighton in a leafy area-EA arrived at property and instead of the family he expected there were around 8 elderly Chinese people in varying states of scruffiness and partially dressed- mattresses on floors, total tip - we beat a very hasty retreat- clearly hadn’t been checked or viewed between tenancy’s-

There are about half a million second homes in the UK, so even of you did go down that route, it would only deal with half of one years population increase.

Commercial property conversions (think office to residential permitted development conversions) are some of the worst offenders for cramming people in. Mostly awful places.

You will only get higher quality stuff if taxpayers are willing to pay for it. I don't see that they are.

@JaneAustensCat we once rented in Crouch End from someone operating this kind of enterprise- it was actually a 2 bed flat but not great but he really was a super shit - actually the agents who let to us were horrified as it was first one they had done with him and told us he was ‘off their books’ as of now. Everything from letting himself in to leaving old beds in what was meant to be unfurnished and then getting aggressive at the door when we gave him a week to remove etc

'the renters appeared to be largely from eastern Europe and Brazil'

If they’re only £500 a month for a single room that’s still £800 on top of that for minus wage? Is that wrong?