NEIGHBOUR CROSSED THE BOUNDARY BEFORE EXCHANGE

[MummyToBeAgain1]

Hi

I need some advice please.

We're buying a semi detached property and due to exchange and complete in a week or 2.

Over the weekend we drove past the property to find a fence being built between our garden and the property on the right. I suspected they had come in to our garden at a glance so drove past again yesterday.

The fence had fully been up and clearly it crossed in to our garden (to be). I've attached a quick drawing which shows what I mean. The red line is the fence the neighbour has put up.

Just for some context this is a auction property as the owner has died and the children wanted a quick sale. This means that we have a deadline for completition which makes things more stressful.

What do we do now?

Tia

One thing that struck me is that absolutely nobody seems to have spoken to or written to the neighbours about what they have done. They must be laughing up their sleeves.

Exactly this. It is beyond my comprehension why nobody has confronted the thieving neighbours and why everyone seems happy to let it lie. The very idea that, at some time in the future, the land register will be updated to reflect the thieving neighbour's ownership is unbelievable. But, having said that, they have erected a very high quality fence, we wouldn't want them to have wasted their time and money on that! 🙄

I think you have a pretty good result OP,

A 10K reduction for something that has minimal impact on you. Don't trust your neighbours to borrow so much as a cup of sugar though!

If the impact is small I wouldn't bother registering any changes. Why give them the land for free and pay for the privilege?

Perhaps raise the dispute if your neighbours are selling paricularly if it is clear on the deeds just to cause them hassle- they might end up paying you for the land too. Even if all they get is stress at least then they won't have got away with their behaviour scot free.

In fact if the neighbours ever brag about their actions it I would be tempted to say "It will be difficult to sell with the boundary disputed though won't it".

It might even be worth looking into what you need to do to prevent the land becoming theirs after 12 years - might need to send a letter as I think to take land 12 years have to go by undisputed.

You have agreed to buy the house as it is. That is with the neighbours fence on your land. That doesn't mean that you need to give then the land.

30% discount, as if! 😂 Living up to your user name nicely, good job!

Some of these replies are so short sighted!

It's all great now, the OP has their new home, the seller gave them a discount, CF neighbour has stolen some land of theirs, but it really doesn't bother the OP at all......

Fast forward into the future. I guarantee this will cause further issues one way or another, and the stress, solicitors and money trying to sort it out will be huge.

As others have rightly said, they want this extra land for some reason, and I agree they will more than likely want to build on it. It is all part of their grand master plan.

I, like so many others posting on this thread, have been involved in a boundary dispute in the past. Trust me, the amount of stress, worry, arguments and money it costs IME really isn't worth it.

Also, looking at your initial diagram, if you wish to extend the back of your property in the future, it would need to be 'dog legged' in, as building back in a straight line would be virtually impossible, as you would have virtually no access past your CF neighbour's new fence.

Ooft, I just would not have been able to let them get away with that. Even if it meant bulldozing the wall after moving in.

If the CF neighbours were to do something illegal on the strip of land (building without planning permission, drilling through an electric cable causing injury to a third party) then the land OWNER would be responsible ?

You don’t need to own the land to get planning.

Yes I know - I mean if they built without planning permission the enforcement officer would contact the owner of the land.
Same if they burst a water main on the strip of land, the land owner would have to pay to have it fixed.
A member of the public could injure themselves and sue the land owner.
The owner of the land is responsible for the land and the CF trespassing neighbours could be doing anything.
I would be concerned.

This. It’s incomprehensible.

Letting them steal part of an established property just to have an easy life? It’s baffling. And I guarantee will cause future issues.

I’d be on their doorstep with a solicitor’s letter giving them one week to remove the fence. If they failed I’d hire my own crew and have it hauled away.

The incompetence of the supposed professionals advising the OP is amazing.

A very good point made upthread - if you are just looking for an easy life then you should just transfer part title, leaving the 'disputed' strip in the sellers hands. It's quite normal to do this with rural properties (e.g. when the seller wants to retain a particular paddock, or access to a water frontage etc), and your conveyancer will have come across this before. Given you are perfectly happy with the size of the new plot, this really will put you in the situation you want to be in - a perfectly clean title, a solid fence, no ill feelings on any side, no disputes to declare, no need to get involved in any land registry shenanigans, no issue when you come to sell (as you would only be selling the plot you occupy).

The issue with the current solution put forward by the sellers is it burdens you with a mucky title.

@Newlittlerescue this is the best course of action IMO

No that isn’t what you’ve agreed. They have basically given you a discount to offset the annoyance. You’re now within your rights to reclaim.

I agree.
I would take the price reduction for the annoyance, but no make any adjustment to land register, retaining ownership.
Keep all the land in your name and title and wait things out.

Revenge is a dish best served cold.
Let things settle until you have time and energy to review this properly.

At the time my friends couldn't be arsed getting into it.
Years later the had, and did.
It was very satisfying.

I get why this sounds satisfying but it’s messy to sell land when you have something like this going on. Waiting to try and force the neighbour into giving the land back threatens to make OP’s life far more difficult. Either she starts a dispute she needs to declare and adds stress and potentially antagonized neighbors to her life or she risks missing out on a better offer right when she needs to sell (as the current sellers have) if she doesn’t clean up the title.

It’s the sellers who deserve revenge here. OP is currently happy with the price and needs to put herself and her future first here. Getting caught up in the seller’s drama with the neighbour is unlikely to make her life better.

I may be short sighted here, but surely if OP owns the strip of land they can just tell the neighbours that they are putting a new fence on the boundary line and give them 2 weeks to move their possessions from it, else the fencing company will just come and reinstate the boundary line in line with the deeds? Attach a copy of the deeds to the letter, then hey - sorted? Then leave all their fencing materials etc piled up on the neighbours side of the boundary once you've removed them from their side?

Also - edited to add that you could also attach any photos to the letter, e.g. photo of Google earth, the property listing etc.

This is what I would do too.

I suppose it depends on whose selling first. If this is their forever home as it is for my friends, and no intention of moving on, depending on age, they could be there for another 30 years.

If the neighbours are older it could well be them who will blink/sell first and find THEY have the issue with land that is not theirs.

You don’t need time to get the gist of what they’re like, you already know exactly what they’re like. They’re the sort of people who would steal from a grieving family and cause a massive amount of stress for loads of other people to further their own ends. I just hope you don’t have any other problems from them in future. Personally I would completely blank them because I couldn’t bring myself to speak to them and not mention it. What nasty people they are.

Congratulations on your new home. It sounds like the layout is such that you’ll be able to avoid and ignore CF neighbours. I hope you can put it behind you and enjoy making the house your own.

Adverse Possession.

Lots of people saying just sit it out, wait and see etc.....

If this issue is not dealt with promptly, in around 10-12 years CF neighbour can claim adverse possession to this piece of land.

Just something else to consider OP.........

1., Are we sure the neighbours aren't right? We have had 2 people in my area who DID own land but had a fence for various reasons further into their own land and when someone was selling next door they then rightly took back the boundary to where is used to be.
2 Are we sure the neighbours have not acquired the bit of land by adverse possession anyway?
3 It sounds like a small bit of land and I bet the title plan with the property is not clear as to exactly where the fence line is as they are usually as clear as mud.

Have you actually read any of this thread?

The thing is though the final agreement was a price reduction and that we would change it on Land Reg post-completion. Not sure where that leaves us going forward?

@MummyToBeAgain1 I think there has been some serious confusion here and bad legal advice and it's not too late to sort it out.

The sellers should have approached the neighbours but if they didn't want to do that because of speed . . ..

What should have happened is that you agree with the sellers to buy the property at the reduced price on the understanding that both parties are aware of the neighbours attempted seizure of the strip.

the reduced price reflects the strip dispute.

you accept that and that in the event it transpires the neighbours keep the strip, you have no right of action against the sellers.

and so far as necessary, any right of action in respect of the neighbours land grab vests in you.

Then you write to the neighbours saying land registry says this is ours, youve taken it unlawfully, put it back.

There is ZERO need for you agree to loss of land and changing the land registry.

So technically after moving in you are meant to sort land regs. But as the house and land are now yours you could dispute the land grab and claim it back.

I'd move in - send a note saying 'since viewing the property and looking at the deeds, you appear to have put up a new wall/fence. Please remove it by X date or I will'.

If they don't, remove it and place the materials in their garden and build your own.

There is a VERY good chance they won't fight it beyond some effing and jeffing, but you do need to be pretty bold and forthright in this approach.

(My Dad did exactly this when, 4 months after buying his property, he went on holiday and the neighbours build a wall 4ft into his property, replacing HIS fence to do so. They didn't have the balls to fight it and backed off sharpish, though this about face did coincide with him bringing a small tractor with a bucket on onto the property - was actually for other purposes but they didn't know that.)