NEIGHBOUR CROSSED THE BOUNDARY BEFORE EXCHANGE

[MummyToBeAgain1]

Hi

I need some advice please.

We're buying a semi detached property and due to exchange and complete in a week or 2.

Over the weekend we drove past the property to find a fence being built between our garden and the property on the right. I suspected they had come in to our garden at a glance so drove past again yesterday.

The fence had fully been up and clearly it crossed in to our garden (to be). I've attached a quick drawing which shows what I mean. The red line is the fence the neighbour has put up.

Just for some context this is a auction property as the owner has died and the children wanted a quick sale. This means that we have a deadline for completition which makes things more stressful.

What do we do now?

Tia

This is a very strange resolution. Not what I expected at all.

This!

You're 100% spot on.

Now's the time enjoy the new house.

I will still keep an eye on the neighbours for a few months, to get a gist of what they like and act accordingly.

However, right now isn't the time for that.

MummyToBeAgain1

I suppose on the bright side, there is now a sturdy, hopefully nice looking fence, paid for by your neighbours, albeit on a bit of your land…and you have your dream house to live in. xx

I would never take that kind of risk. Good for you that you can afford to.

I do not understand giving up actual property that you rightfully own.

Well, the OP doesn't own it yet. Possibly the current owner sold it to the neighbour, or allowed them to take it as they had been neighbours to their parents. They might have assumed the OP wouldn't notice.

It sounds like such a small strip that there might be no need to update the deeds. The boundaries aren't usually that precise on the maps.

Hopefully you got a nice big discount OP.

I would ask the neighbour for costs to register the new boundary.

The OP has already been fully compensated for that. That argument is between the current owners and the neighbour. It seems that they have chosen to let it go.

Excellnt post, Helen1625, and espoecially the first paragraph

Basically the sellers have accepted a reduction in order to pass the problems onto someone else, and depending how long the place had been for sale they may have had little choice

It also occurs to me to wonder if this was partly the purpose of auctioning it, so that the buyer would be quickly "locked in" before any dispute came to light

The main thing that would bother me though - having got away with this - is what else the folk next door might try. Clearly they're not honest and decent people, and frankly I'd want better neighbours

There is more too this than we currently know. I would bet my life on it. I wonder how bad these neighbours are. Have they got a huge history of being CF and the sellers, having delved into this realised it was better to give some money off the price than to go through any legal process.

I stand by what i said earlier. Whatever discount they gave, double it and you still got a poor deal. I hope i am wrong but no one selling a property walks away from it by giving money off unless they really have no choice.

I understand why you felt you had no option OP.

It sounds as if no one dared to ask CF neighbours to take down their fence? Obviously you couldn’t do that as you don’t legally own it yet - I mean any of the other parties.

It’s a huge shame that the CF neighbours have essentially screwed the family out of money. A price reduction for you is right and fair, but it’s the sellers who lose out not the guilty party.

I would really struggle to have any kind of amicable relationship with them, knowing they’ve deliberately taken advantage of a grieving family.

You say you just want to get the new boundaries registered, post-completion, and draw a line under this. I’d probably approach the CF neighbours once you’re in and tell them that you’re aware they moved the boundary while the property was empty, and that you’re in the process of getting land registry updated to show it’s legally theirs. I might also tell them that the sellers had to reduce their price to reflect what they’d done.

The reason I’d tell them is that it shows you are full aware of their shenanigans and that you aren’t a pushover. Just in case they ever think of trying anything else when you aren’t looking - if you’re away on holiday for example.

You be polite and friendly about it - after all, you’re just letting them know as a favour, right? It just sends an unspoken signal to them that you don’t let CFery slip past unnoticed.

Boundary surveyor
Discussion with neighbour
Serious letter #1
Serious warning letter #2
Move fence if they havent

Spend the 10k that way = bonus of no more CF from neighbours

Had friends who did same. Fence had been moved several years. All good now

But that would just inflame the situation. @MummyToBeAgain1 has got a good price reduction and just wants to live in peace.
The neighbours know what they did, as does OP.

I wouldn’t register the new boundary at all. Just leave as is. The OP is happy with the fence moved, they just give a licence to the neighbours to use it. It doesn’t need to be any more complicated than that.

This is potentially good advice (and marries with what happened to us in a similar situation). If the second solicitors letter (which should also mention that the CF will need to enter into a boundary agreement to confirm the boundary is where it ought to be) yields no joy then a third letter will warn that barristers are about to be instructed and costs will amount to circa £50k each, with the losing party liable for both sets.
long story short but our CF opted for a boundary agreement over the risk of monumental costs (because he knew he was wrong)
Only problem with this is costs of legal tooing and froing. And of course you need a strong mental constitution.
The big advantage for OP is that it signals you’ll take no future sh£t.

That just kicks the can down the road, though. Sorting things out when OP comes to sell could be trickier and take time that she can’t really afford.

why? She owns the land. The issue will be for the neighbour when they come to sell. I would simply insist that when they sell they move the fence back.

This is what happened with our friends years later. They sent a letter initially but had too much going on at the time. The neighbours put a garage on the 10ft deep they took and new fence.

When they were sale agreed my friends struck with a letter to their EA.

They got their land back, had to take down the garage, new wall and a hefty reduction in price to their buyers.

They were absolutely furious....which was such a lovely bonus.

Sorting things out when OP comes to sell could be trickier and take time that she can’t really afford

Very likely, yes, especially as there's now a clear boundary dispute which would have to be declared

And before anyone says that was with the previous owner, the question asked is whether the property itself has given rise to a dispute rather than who owned it at the time

OP - I think that you don't get what has happened and you need to get legal advice.

You are buying a plot of land which has had part of it fenced off from you. You have the choice of reclaiming it and enforcing your ownership rights by having the fencing removed, or you can give it to your CF neighbour and pay for the legal costs of registering your new reduced size plot. The vendor is passing these costs onto you as part of the purchase contract.

Personally, I think that either way, you are getting stiffed at £10k. Normal price reductions in this situation is 30% of market value.

Did OP tell us what the price reduction was? I don’t think she did. The £10k mentioned was the deposit originally paid.

Agree with this completely, and the neighbours have shown what kind of people they are. There’s a high chance that more could happen and OP won’t be happy there and end up selling.

this needs to be iron clad whatever the outcome is, or there will be a lot of headache later down the line.

There is no guarantee the neighbours will ever sell.

I think OP needs to fight this regardless of the reduction in price. The neighbours have given no consideration whatsoever for the parcel they have annexed. The new state of affairs still hasn't been officially recognized.

OK fine, the main point is that the problem (& costs of sorting it out) become OP's and the typical expression on these types of sale is "30% BMV".

OP make sure that your purchase includes an affidavit from the vendor, as they are unlikely to provide any help afterwards (taking the reasonable view that they reduced the price in order to pass the problem on).

This

What if she wants to sell before the neighbour does? Many buyers, including me, would not touch her house with a bargepole if (a) part of it is licensed to someone else or (b) part has been legally assigned to the neighbour following a land grab or (c) she has ticked the box "has there been a dispute/is there anything in relation to the property that could lead to a dispute"

I don't want neighbours like that.