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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

I just watched Adolescence - terrified!

82 replies

irisetta · 26/03/2025 00:45

So I'm a Mum of 2 boys, both pre-teen (9 and 10). I remember reading stuff online that horrified me 10, 15 years ago - V Roosh, the Return of Kings site, etc - the precursor to the Andrew Tate horror - jfc, where have we gone wrong?! My boys are beautiful, kind, loving souls, right now - but teenage years wreak havoc on us all, and I am absolutely petrified. What does shine through to me is the essential sadness of these men - their self worth can only be defined by dominating, seducing and "owning" females - but since when was that a marker of self worth, for any bright, articulate, intelligent human being? I'm so worried, because it is affecting our kids, even the cleverest ones. Girls too. What do we think, Mumsnet?

Unreasonable - the kids will work it out, stop panicking (or thinking about panicking)

Reasonable - panic isn't the answer, but we need to address this now

OP posts:
Blueloo · 26/03/2025 11:36

I voted YANBU, but I don’t think anyone should be panicking.

I’ve since spoken to a few teachers, and found it interesting that there’s a mix of opinions. Some say it doesn’t reflect at all on their experiences, some felt it was very well portrayed, interestingly from some there is a mix of opinions when working in the same schools. Some of my son’s teachers come across as weak and ineffective, others stronger and more likely to have a positive impact on children, so I think that’s down to personality, and that will change how they view certain situations.

It’s the same if you talk to people about porn - some love it and see no issue, some hate it and only see problems.

I think we’re at a point where we have to somehow address what’s going on. It’s being brushed under the carpet too much. How girls are taught from a very young age to make way for boys, being made to take responsibility for their behaviour.
When porn comes on the scene, earlier and earlier, it’s too easy to access porn that would have been off limits to most pre internet, so young boys, even those with excellent parents who have great parental controls, can view porn that teaches them that violence during sex is normal, that women should largely submit to this violence and even enjoy it. That dangerous practices like choking is fine.
When sexual red flags in schools are routinely dismissed as boys lacking the social skills to treat girls with respect. When bullying is ignored. It all passes as acceptable and normal, when it shouldn’t be.

You can be the best parents in the world, but when your perfect son goes to secondary school, in this world where porn and the manosphere are huge and influential, you can’t rely on your son’s early years to keep them, and girls in their lives, safe. Yes you can limit screens once home, but that only shelters them so much.

What actually needs to happen is for decent men to become louder. To call out the shit that men very often banter about. To call out the disgusting stuff that men often joke about when referring to women. Call out this nonsense that feminism, and women’s desire for equality, is somehow oppressive towards men.

Right now there are very few men calling this stuff out, and very often those aligning with women to speak up for/with them have placed themselves in order to access them in a predatory way.

At the moment the expectation seems to be on women to fix it all, and this is easy to see in rl. Mens’ talking groups and mental health orgs are so often set up and run by women. Men need to step up and put things into place to stop the growing vacuum that allows the Andrew Tates of the world to take that space. They are not helpless babies, so why rely so much on women having to fix things for them?

Internet should be heavily regulated, particularly for under 18s. No child should be able to access porn ever. This stands for 4/5g networks as well. You shouldn’t have to rely on parental controls, which are easy to change, and useless if your child’s friend has no controls, to prevent children from seeing porn. I also think things like choking and slapping should be classified differently, (I’d like to say banning but that doesn’t work) so it’s more difficult to find and isn’t as mainstream as it currently is.

It’s a man’s world though. They’ve created this. They need to take responsibility and make it better.

thankyounextplease · 26/03/2025 11:42

madamweb · 26/03/2025 10:57

It's a TV programme. And one with quite "a level drama project vibes" at that.

Keep talking to your boys, keep spending time with them, make sure they don't spend their whole life online, be aware of their peer group, nurture their talents and support them in things they struggle at.

We have two teenage boys and they both think Andrew Tate was an idiot. One of them asked to watch Adolescence and couldn't follow chunks of it because they had no idea what an incel was or what all these emojis were.

And his view on the school "maybe some schools are like that?"

well, I'm glad that's the case because I use purple heart emojis a lot and was worried I'd been signalling I was horny!!

Blueloo · 26/03/2025 11:46

Summer2025 · 26/03/2025 10:38

My gen z sister in law is exactly like Jamie in episode 3 in terms of aggressiveness, emotional volatility, low self esteeM, overwhelming urge to be liked, desire to provoke emotional reactions. She also has the addiction to tech and stays up all night on the computer and sleeps all day. She is 27( but has done this since 15 or possibly even younger). However cos she is a girl, instead of being the manosphere, it is trans. She got expelled from school at 15 and her story is she was trying to get out a door and the obese headmaster was in the way. Sounds like she assaulted him.

When he screamed look at me, I had such a sense of deja vu, SIL screamed the same at me. And when psychologist broke down and cried, I remember feeling like that too (she is much younger than me too).

I don't know if it's just online radicalisation or Jamie was meant to have sociopathic traits. If that is the case I am really scared about my SIL. Am pregnant so feel more vulnerable. Dh agrees, he says he is often scared of his sister and he is a guy 8 years older than her!

Edited

Oh that’s an interesting take!
There’s a link with trans and autism (which explains the black and white thinking, and also the obsessive nature of it all), and I’ve often wondered if there’s a similar link with incels. There’s a real lack of critical thinking, whatever it is.

Not saying that autistic people are bad. I’m autistic and recognise how easy it would be to slip into these ways, particularly if your chosen tribe validates your views 100%.

I’ve also wondered if there’s an element of the internet, allowing autistic people to connect much more easily hasn’t been entirely successful for us, and seems to be behind some of the tricky things going on at the moment (I know how that reads, but as an autistic who has had to withdraw from most autistic online spaces due to what I would call radicalised extremism, it really makes you think!).

ButThisIsMyHappyFace · 26/03/2025 11:51

99% of the teenage boys I teach think Andrew Tate is a weirdo (not their terminology, but you get the picture!). Of course, negotiating things like getting your first girlfriend is tricky, so is working out “what kind of model of masculinity do I want to be?” Your DP/DH is essential here, to talk about the fact that being a boy/man is fine, it’s all about how you treat others.

In the classroom, I found gentle mockery of the more neanderthal members of the class was the most effective, coupled with a warm appeal to their better nature: “Ernesto/Taiye/Jonathan/Imran, if you ever succeed in persuading a woman to go out with you, you will find she’s much less likely to put weed killer in your tea if you do your own laundry” followed up by “come on, Andrew Tate must feel so worthless that he thinks he has to buy women. You’ll never be in such a sorry state - you’ve got far too
much going for you to get sucked into that nonsense”.

BeDeepKoala · 26/03/2025 11:54

Lamelie · 26/03/2025 10:46

I watched it and was unimpressed, but thought maybe I’m not the audience- work in vawg, brought up boys and girls in a firm moral framework to be aware of toxic relationship patterns and beliefs etc.
But I’m now wondering if there is something more sinister going on. The ‘wrong’ police procedural stuff, the chaotic school, the fact the protagonist had an engaged dad at home. Even the fact that the case was based on black kids and pointing it out invalidates any criticism, it just all feels off.
Onviously sex based violence is firmly sex not race based by the way and the recent cases were outliers, it just feels really muddy and I don’t think we’re getting the whole story and who’s pulling the strings.

Yes its very ideological.

Normally the netflix/hollywood mandate is to replace white characters with random black/etc ones for "diversity " purposes, which is how we end up with latino Snow Whites, and shows set in Victorian England or feudal Scotland where half the characters are black.

And yet for this particular show, the main character was race swapped from being black, to white. So a story which is really about black gang/knife crime (which is overwhelming the main driving force behind teenage murders) becomes an excuse to hand wring about the evils of white working class kids, Andrew Tate, and is used as another pretext for government censorship of the internet.

Summer2025 · 26/03/2025 11:54

Blueloo · 26/03/2025 11:46

Oh that’s an interesting take!
There’s a link with trans and autism (which explains the black and white thinking, and also the obsessive nature of it all), and I’ve often wondered if there’s a similar link with incels. There’s a real lack of critical thinking, whatever it is.

Not saying that autistic people are bad. I’m autistic and recognise how easy it would be to slip into these ways, particularly if your chosen tribe validates your views 100%.

I’ve also wondered if there’s an element of the internet, allowing autistic people to connect much more easily hasn’t been entirely successful for us, and seems to be behind some of the tricky things going on at the moment (I know how that reads, but as an autistic who has had to withdraw from most autistic online spaces due to what I would call radicalised extremism, it really makes you think!).

Apparently 30% of incels have autism. My SIL has aspergers and adhd (DH also has asd and adhd). There is a 8 year gap, dh never really used social media before uni and deleted all his social media years ago (he was born the year the berlin wall fell). He also had a girlfriend at sixth form and met his wife (me) at university. Basically always been in a relationship.

It's interesting, I am not saying my dh would ever have been an incel but like many boys he worried about not having a girlfriend until 18 etc and that was when most people didn't have smartphones and boys and girls mixed more IRL. How would he be like if he was younger like my SiL. Of course what helped my DH was that he was more academic (SiL failed gcses) but it is said Jamie did well at school too.

StarDolphins · 26/03/2025 11:57

Terrifies me too and I have a DD. She also has a Dad that is misogynistic and openly shows his respect for Andrew Tate, Russell Brand, Putin & Trump so I’m really up against it! 🤣 but I will win!

I spend every opportunity building her self respect, boundaries and explaining what is acceptable and what is not. I’m also watching Adolescence and my DD know I am so I’ve appropriately explained some of it to her. Along with the dangers of Snapchat, WhatsApp, insta and all the other shit things in the world.

That’s all we can do as parents I guess but I’m with you op.

BeDeepKoala · 26/03/2025 11:57

ButThisIsMyHappyFace · 26/03/2025 11:51

99% of the teenage boys I teach think Andrew Tate is a weirdo (not their terminology, but you get the picture!). Of course, negotiating things like getting your first girlfriend is tricky, so is working out “what kind of model of masculinity do I want to be?” Your DP/DH is essential here, to talk about the fact that being a boy/man is fine, it’s all about how you treat others.

In the classroom, I found gentle mockery of the more neanderthal members of the class was the most effective, coupled with a warm appeal to their better nature: “Ernesto/Taiye/Jonathan/Imran, if you ever succeed in persuading a woman to go out with you, you will find she’s much less likely to put weed killer in your tea if you do your own laundry” followed up by “come on, Andrew Tate must feel so worthless that he thinks he has to buy women. You’ll never be in such a sorry state - you’ve got far too
much going for you to get sucked into that nonsense”.

Yes, female teachers repeatedly singling out the boys in their class for "gentle mockery" definitely has nothing to do with the problems that white working class boys are facing.

Let me guess, you arent "gently mocking" the girls in your class lol

RachelLikesTea · 26/03/2025 11:58

YABU, I am pleased to confirm. I have 2 sons, have asked them several times over the years about Andrew Tate, the replies have always been 'he's an idiot' (or words to that effect, sometimes stronger words). I asked them both again about it at the weekend after reading so much online discussion about the Netflix series. Both explained to me why the man's an idiot and all their friends say the same thing and anyone who listens to a word he says is an idiot, too.

Makes me sad that this could potentially spoil anyone's enjoyment of raising boys. Most people are good parents and know to keep their children (boys and girls) busy with sport and activities that involve both girls and boys. Just talk to them, teach them respect and common decency (I am sure you are, OP).

Blueloo · 26/03/2025 12:01

Wasn’t the author clear that the story was based on several cases? Not the case with a black boy as the red pill crowd has jumped on.

Lamelie · 26/03/2025 12:04

BeDeepKoala · 26/03/2025 11:54

Yes its very ideological.

Normally the netflix/hollywood mandate is to replace white characters with random black/etc ones for "diversity " purposes, which is how we end up with latino Snow Whites, and shows set in Victorian England or feudal Scotland where half the characters are black.

And yet for this particular show, the main character was race swapped from being black, to white. So a story which is really about black gang/knife crime (which is overwhelming the main driving force behind teenage murders) becomes an excuse to hand wring about the evils of white working class kids, Andrew Tate, and is used as another pretext for government censorship of the internet.

Exactly. Groups at risk:
Women and young girls
Boys without a male role model
Children vulnerable to exploitation by drug dealers
And instead we’re all talking about a fictional young white boy from a stable family 🤔

ButThisIsMyHappyFace · 26/03/2025 12:07

BeDeepKoala · 26/03/2025 11:57

Yes, female teachers repeatedly singling out the boys in their class for "gentle mockery" definitely has nothing to do with the problems that white working class boys are facing.

Let me guess, you arent "gently mocking" the girls in your class lol

I don’t teach girls. Actually, poking fun at boys who a bit full of themselves and then building up the positive sides of them is EXACTLY what teenage boys respond best to. Have you ever taught a class of 30 working class boys aged 15? It’s been my entire career. You carry on clutching your pearls and wagging your finger if you think it helps. I bet you any money you like the boys will glaze over.

User32459 · 26/03/2025 12:09

BeDeepKoala · 26/03/2025 11:57

Yes, female teachers repeatedly singling out the boys in their class for "gentle mockery" definitely has nothing to do with the problems that white working class boys are facing.

Let me guess, you arent "gently mocking" the girls in your class lol

The poison and dangers of social media aren't just affecting boys either, it's girls as well. And not just from a safety point of view, but the affect it has on the developing brain and mental health.

It's got a bit lost in the whole moral panic from this show - that 13 year old boys, with no history of violence, from a traditional family, are going to be knife murderers if someone calls them an incel. A bit of an oxymoron if you're below the age of consent.

Kids accessing social media and youth knife crime may have links, but the two things are separate issues as well.

Bbq1 · 26/03/2025 12:10

My son is 19. He's watched Adolescence and said it was very powerful. He's a good person, very kind, thoughtful, well mannered and affectionate and has never brought us a moments trouble. It's down to upbringing mainly, so I'm sure your boys will grow up into lovely young men too.

StarDolphins · 26/03/2025 12:11

ButThisIsMyHappyFace · 26/03/2025 12:07

I don’t teach girls. Actually, poking fun at boys who a bit full of themselves and then building up the positive sides of them is EXACTLY what teenage boys respond best to. Have you ever taught a class of 30 working class boys aged 15? It’s been my entire career. You carry on clutching your pearls and wagging your finger if you think it helps. I bet you any money you like the boys will glaze over.

Edited

I totally agree with your approach! My friend did this type of thing with her son and he’s just the most adorable and respectful young man now ever!

User32459 · 26/03/2025 12:12

Blueloo · 26/03/2025 12:01

Wasn’t the author clear that the story was based on several cases? Not the case with a black boy as the red pill crowd has jumped on.

Yeah, there was a high profile one in Liverpool, where Stephen Graham is from.

Plus he wrote the character of the Dad for himself, so the 13 year old son was realistically going to be white.

Dandelionsarefree · 26/03/2025 12:16

OP don't worry.
I don't think it comes out of the blue. Just don't give them a phone and hope for the best.

I have 2 DD and 1DS. DS is 13. He only got a phone at 13 and very restricted use. To go to school or when he is away to be contactable. Restricted use for 1h a day and its enough.

None of my kids (teens) are allowed to bring the phone to their rooms at night. We talk about the dangers of the Internet, cyberbulling, pedophilia, conspiracy theories and general discontent of the population comparing themselves to "fictional others" on Instagram. We don't have accounts in Facebook or Instagram to send a clear message to the kids.

We also do lots of things outdoors, we are sporty, and they are too. They have hobbies and get on well with us. We watch films together. They are fun kids, they are happy

And they don't complain about not having the damm phone with them all the time like most of their friends. In fact they did say its boring when everyone is scrolling non stop.

Set the bar high and dont be afraid to be "different" to other parents. They will thank you in the future for that. xx

ButThisIsMyHappyFace · 26/03/2025 12:16

@StarDolphins Thanks! I’ve had letters from boys when they leave school saying “thanks for helping me be less of an idiot and making me a nicer person”. It’s better than any A* grade ever. I’d argue they were nice to start with, it just needed nurturing and the negative traits (which we all have) needed pruning. You have to believe in the best inside them otherwise you’ll never get anywhere.

Gogogo12345 · 26/03/2025 12:19

TeaRoseTallulah · 26/03/2025 10:15

There are stabbings reported on the news all the time yet there aren't the threads and hysteria about them like there are about this drama.

It's like posters who have sons are afraid they will suddenly go around stabbing people.

Because a netflix show gets into the living rooms of naice middle class areas whereas real stabbings etc are seen to be confined to " dodgy council estates" and " rough areas"

RachelLikesTea · 26/03/2025 12:25

ButThisIsMyHappyFace · 26/03/2025 11:51

99% of the teenage boys I teach think Andrew Tate is a weirdo (not their terminology, but you get the picture!). Of course, negotiating things like getting your first girlfriend is tricky, so is working out “what kind of model of masculinity do I want to be?” Your DP/DH is essential here, to talk about the fact that being a boy/man is fine, it’s all about how you treat others.

In the classroom, I found gentle mockery of the more neanderthal members of the class was the most effective, coupled with a warm appeal to their better nature: “Ernesto/Taiye/Jonathan/Imran, if you ever succeed in persuading a woman to go out with you, you will find she’s much less likely to put weed killer in your tea if you do your own laundry” followed up by “come on, Andrew Tate must feel so worthless that he thinks he has to buy women. You’ll never be in such a sorry state - you’ve got far too
much going for you to get sucked into that nonsense”.

Love this.

Funkybananabread · 26/03/2025 12:32

I don’t usually reply on threads but having just finished watching adolescence I feel the need to. As a mother of 2 boys (oldest is 8) and a primary school teacher, I feel I have some insight too!

  1. for those saying that it should have been about a black teenager I completely disagree - the show didn’t have anything to do with gang culture, it was about incel culture, which (from the many safeguarding training courses I have been on) seems to mainly target white, working class boys who are vulnerable to this after being consistently overlooked for many years in the education system.
  2. for those with the opinion ‘it doesn’t happen in my child’s school’ I can almost guarantee that it does. Your child might have a strong friendship group with children who have great parents and strong morals, but there will be other groups involved in this in the school, likely under the radar. My own school and my children’s school are both excellent schools but I know of children in year 3/4 in both schools who are already using the vocabulary from Andrew Tate - there are videos on YouTube introducing this (think alpha/beta/sigma/ 8020) and parents who just do not police their children online at all, then come in and share it with the rest of the class.
  3. for those saying this show is irrelevant and to just be a good parent and you’ll be ok - it’s great that your child won’t end up in jail but they could end up a victim. We all need to take incel culture seriously as it really is rife throughout the country and anyone who thinks otherwise is kidding themselves. So many women are killed every week by men known to them/domestic violence and these men weren’t even exposed to it - however the current generation of youngsters are growing up with abusers as their fathers/ uncles as well as the online influence.

Sorry if this comes across as a massive rant but everyone should be worried about the issues raised in this show (regardless if you think some aspects of the show are unrealistic). Whilst I am not panicking about my own children being drawn into this world, I am worried about the state of society in general as we all have to live in it.

Panterusblackish · 26/03/2025 12:37

BeDeepKoala · 26/03/2025 01:51

The amount of crazy people freaking out and trying to base real life policy decisions on a fictional TV show is absolutely wild

Maybe, just maybe they're freaking out because the tv series mirrored what is happening in real life. Look at Kyle Clifford. Look at young girls being coerced to harm themselves, siblings and pets by older teenaged boys.

The Post Office scandal was in the press long before the TV series. But the TV series bought it to a new level of prominence. As someone who followed that case, I was surprised both by how it seemed to be under the radar given how serious it was and then how public knowledge of the scandal exploded. It gave me new insight into just how important writers, actors etc are to society.

Maybe don't scoff at parents very valid concerns.

We only need to look at Brexit and the shit show that is America to understand the deep harm that social media can have.

TheUsualChaos · 26/03/2025 12:46

I don't think parents need to be terrified or panic. But we do need to change as society and pull back from handing young children and teens devices that their developing brains aren't ready for. I'm not just talking about TikTok, YouTube etc. It's WhatsApp and other messaging apps. It's giving them ability to carry on disagreements and bullying outside of school. Phones take away the ability for children to cool down and process.

I think the whole point in all of this is that phones act as fuel to existing problems. They create connections that shouldn't exist. They can the gateway down a very slippery path and it can all happen in silence with no ones knowledge until it's too late. The series shows the extreme end of this but that doesn't mean we shouldn't worry about it because our kids couldn't possibly go that far.

Follow Smart Phone Free Childhood. A good place to start. Delay smartphones and social media. You can say no to phones and your child will be fine despite everyone trying to tell you kids can't possibly live without one once they start secondary school.

Perculiar · 26/03/2025 12:50

I don’t understand why you’re terrified. It was a good drama in that it’s got people thinking about what kids can access online but I don’t think it should be terrifying you!

I have a year 8 son. He has an iPhone with restrictions. He is not allowed to be online until 1.30 in the morning or wander the streets until late at night. He has no idea what all the emojis mean and vaguely knows who Andrew Tate is but knows he is a knob.

the boy in the drama was not parented particularly well (although I still think it was a leap that he would commit premeditated murder at 13). If you parent your children well with age appropriate restrictions and rules in place and spend time with your child then your child isn’t likely to become radicalised.

Perculiar · 26/03/2025 12:51

Also this is like the millionth post on this programme. That’s why you were asked if you were promoting it. You could have replied on any of the other (many) other threads about it

Swipe left for the next trending thread