I just watched Adolescence - terrified!

[irisetta]

So I'm a Mum of 2 boys, both pre-teen (9 and 10). I remember reading stuff online that horrified me 10, 15 years ago - V Roosh, the Return of Kings site, etc - the precursor to the Andrew Tate horror - jfc, where have we gone wrong?! My boys are beautiful, kind, loving souls, right now - but teenage years wreak havoc on us all, and I am absolutely petrified. What does shine through to me is the essential sadness of these men - their self worth can only be defined by dominating, seducing and "owning" females - but since when was that a marker of self worth, for any bright, articulate, intelligent human being? I'm so worried, because it is affecting our kids, even the cleverest ones. Girls too. What do we think, Mumsnet?

Unreasonable - the kids will work it out, stop panicking (or thinking about panicking)

Reasonable - panic isn't the answer, but we need to address this now

Am I the only one more horrified by the portrayal of the school & some of the pupils?

Trust me, that show doesn’t need promotion! It’s a brilliant and important piece of telly, and a global success…

Nope - but I have worked and frequently been in the 8/10 state comps in our city and can tell you that not ONE was like that school. Not even close. Not even the ‘bad’ school that people talk about.
None of them allow phones, none of the teachers talk to the pupils like that, none of the kids are running around like that, the general atmosphere is very calm and there are units etc in place in school ground for the kids who do have SEN or struggle with behaviour.

And not even a particularly good one. The school scenes were badly acted and unrealistic.

I have a 13 yo DS and agree that the incel/manosphere stuff is horrific but what I took away from Adolescence was that there were many issue in Jamie's life that contributed to a 'perfect storm" of reasons (not excuses) for him murdering Katie. He didn't seem to have a close relationship with either parent by this point, a generally angry Dad who was abused by his father and had to be periodically calmed down by Mum and sister, Dad who forced him into hobbies completely unsuited to his personality and didn't seem to value much about the person Jamie actually was etc. Also Jamie left roaming the streets till 10.30pm on a school night, alone for much of it as I think his friends left at 8.30 pm. I think that's what made it particularly interesting, that there were lots of small issues that painted a larger picture.

So I think the take away for me is to focus on the things I can control. The things that are basically normal aspects of parenting and should be done for boys and girls equally - parental controls on phones/screens, keeping a close connection (to me and other family members), not leaving them to stagnate in their bedrooms, take an interest in their life and the things they are interested in, talk about everything, encourage positive hobbies that fit their interests, focus your praise on who they are to build self esteem, check where they are and where they are going, don't let sexism go unchecked within your home or in things they say - point it out every single time etc etc.

Would you let your kids come home from school and be on their computer until 1am in the morning and give up on everything else?

If yes, then of course they are likely to be affected by the issues raised.

If you intend to raise them to use social media sensibly and mix it in with family time and encourage them to pursue their interests (whether that be sport, music or art) and actually converse with them, then you should be fine.

Reactions to this show are a bit OTT. Yes, online filth is bad. But schools are a bigger problem. Bullying goes unchecked. And it is so sly that adults don't even have a clue or think its no big deal.

While the popular mantra is about standing up to bullies, being the bigger person and resilience, the message should be DO NOT BULLY. Anyone. Ever. Because you don't know who you will piss off.
That weak kid? His big brother is in a gang.
That fat girl? Her dad is in Hells Angels.
That weirdo? He's really a psychopath who will eventually grab a knife. Or worse.

My gen z sister in law is exactly like Jamie in episode 3 in terms of aggressiveness, emotional volatility, low self esteeM, overwhelming urge to be liked, desire to provoke emotional reactions. She also has the addiction to tech and stays up all night on the computer and sleeps all day. She is 27( but has done this since 15 or possibly even younger). However cos she is a girl, instead of being the manosphere, it is trans. She got expelled from school at 15 and her story is she was trying to get out a door and the obese headmaster was in the way. Sounds like she assaulted him.

When he screamed look at me, I had such a sense of deja vu, SIL screamed the same at me. And when psychologist broke down and cried, I remember feeling like that too (she is much younger than me too).

I don't know if it's just online radicalisation or Jamie was meant to have sociopathic traits. If that is the case I am really scared about my SIL. Am pregnant so feel more vulnerable. Dh agrees, he says he is often scared of his sister and he is a guy 8 years older than her!

I haven't watched it because I'm expecting it to be a difficult watch as mother to two young men. I will because it sounds important, but I'm having to steel myself.

My "boys" are now 21 & 24 and I think decent young men, good kind people and productive to have in my home, but there are elements of how DS1 is with his GFs that I don't love and DS2 is a recluse who spends far too much time online...

You think teens are nodding their heads at Adolescence? I think they’re cringing at depiction of school and the students.

I watched it and was unimpressed, but thought maybe I’m not the audience- work in vawg, brought up boys and girls in a firm moral framework to be aware of toxic relationship patterns and beliefs etc.
But I’m now wondering if there is something more sinister going on. The ‘wrong’ police procedural stuff, the chaotic school, the fact the protagonist had an engaged dad at home. Even the fact that the case was based on black kids and pointing it out invalidates any criticism, it just all feels off.
Onviously sex based violence is firmly sex not race based by the way and the recent cases were outliers, it just feels really muddy and I don’t think we’re getting the whole story and who’s pulling the strings.

I think it depends entirely in the school and background of the children. As I said I haven't watched it but having worked in PRUs, with children whose homelife makes them vulnerable and disenfranchised, I do recognise a lot of the risks that are being talked about.

Alot of teenagers I know don't recognise this behaviour to be honest. It's good to open the conversation with your kids but I don't think every teenage boy is going to relate to this at all.

atmywitsend1989 · Today 09:49

BeDeepKoala · Today 01:51
The amount of crazy people freaking out and trying to base real life policy decisions on a fictional TV show is absolutely wild

The exact story itself is fake but there are plenty of young men like Jamie. Mums SHOULD be vigilant about this! You can't stay unaware of what teenagers and children are getting sucked into these days, and right now it happens to be the andrew tate crap

Mums? Just Mums?

This is a really good point. I sometimes think we forget to acknowledge worrying behaviour from girls, which absolutely does exist and is also getting worse.

It seems like a programme that features young people but more aimed at anxious parents. Soaps have these sort of plots too. Most actual teenagers just want to see people their age mucking about and having a laugh.

You are in the perfect position to plan your approach to digital access carefully. Put pins on all your smart tv apps so that kids can't access YouTube, adult content or games via the tv without your permission. Set up a separate WiFi for kids use which has strong filters. Set up content controls on you alexa devices. Start seeding it now that your kids won't have smartphones till they're older, and they won't have social media at all until 14/older. Let them know that includes Discord/Twitch. Set up online gaming controls so that they can't accept or send friend requests without a parent's password so that you have control of who they play online with. When you do get them a phone either give them a brick phone as a starter device, or put controls like family link on it with a limit on time in the phone, and enforced phone lock at night. Have firm rules that no devices are in kids bedrooms - no tv, pc, laptop, gaming console or phones. If they're online it needs to be in a shared family space. Configure your WiFi to block tiktok, insta etc. You can Google how to do this quite easily. Regularly check search histories, photo galleries, you tube watch history etc. You can't control what they see with friends or outside the home, but you can set boundaries at home and thereby give your kids a clear message that the Internet is not a playground.

It's a TV programme. And one with quite "a level drama project vibes" at that.

Keep talking to your boys, keep spending time with them, make sure they don't spend their whole life online, be aware of their peer group, nurture their talents and support them in things they struggle at.

We have two teenage boys and they both think Andrew Tate was an idiot. One of them asked to watch Adolescence and couldn't follow chunks of it because they had no idea what an incel was or what all these emojis were.

And his view on the school "maybe some schools are like that?"

I agree, WTF is going on.

Yes watching the programme made my son feel very privileged if that is what some schools are like.

Sure there's some mucking about, I mean I was a straight A teen and even I mucked about or had giggles, we aren't robots, but they all get on and learn too.

I thought the depiction of all the teachers as rather pathetic and apathetic was wildly slanderous. There are some amazingly committed (and robust) teachers at my son's school. He hero worships his maths teacher for starters!

My sons 13. We have very very open and honest discussions. I ask him his opinion on things, I ask him to give me his thoughts on topics and not reply in the way he thinks I want him to. I value his opinions, I value our ability to debate and challenge each other. I never ever preach.

I find the approach of listening to him and valuing his opinion has allowed this honest and open relationship. Nothing is off limits nor should it be.

I asked him Sunday if he had watched anything by or regarding Andrew Tate and he had, I asked what he thought and to be fair his response didn’t surprise me - Andrew Tate is a loser, DS says his friends and he preaches to try to remain relevant by being controversial and it’s best that he is ignored and that’s what he and his mates do.

Not in a million years, but I know parents - ‘good’ MC parents - who do, for various reasons, including that the kid is doing okay at school, that they aren’t really paying attention to their online time, that they aren’t sure how to limit their kid, that they’re working shifts and aren’t always around, that their child ‘socialises’ like that, that other kids seem to be doing it, kid is a bit out of controland at least they are at home… and on and on…

friend told me he has no idea what their D.C. do online because the kid says their laptops and phones are ‘private’ and the parents don’t have the passcodes! So they just talk to the kids and trust them to do the right thing and hope for the best. As their kids are 14 and 15 however, and the younger one is in all sorts of trouble in general, I think that they’re bloody mad to allow them so much freedom around devices.

Remember that the "masculinity" shit spewed by Andrew Tate etc. is extremist ideology. It is not the norm. It should worry all of us that such extremist ideology is freely available and distributed so easily. Please don't imagine it is the norm for young people to be influenced to violent action by it. But please be vigilant that your children aren't wandering these streets (virtual and real) alone and with no boundaries. Because it is certainly fueling and justifying violent action against women, girls and boys who don't follow the same ideology.

There are other male role models who counter this extremism and offer a very different version of boyhood and masculinity (whatever that means!) I loved this conversation between Paul Bruson on his podcast "we need to talk" with Jordan Stephens of Rizzle Kicks: d

The hype is odd but use it for good..an end to permissive parenting and weak schools. More focus on the poison of social media for children..tackling misogyny in boys.

@madamweb my experience with my teenagers was the same. They think AT is an idiot, the knew nothing about incels, the emojis, the manosphere, the 80/20 thing. They said their school is nothing like that, they would be punished for behaving like that. They have good relationships with their teachers.

I dont recognise myself in the parents. My children are: boy turning 14, boy 15 and girl 17. They are all in bed at 9.30, no screens in the rooms, tight restrictions on phone use and gaming. The dont bring their phones to school, they have activities most evenings and when home they do some study and then watch tv in the living room. No phones in the living room either so very little phone use in the evening. Myself and DH rarely use phones, all phones stay in the kitchen and kids only use them to message friends or call for a chat, they dont scroll on social media and dont sit with their phones messaging on snapchat or whatever app for hours.
DH and I work long hours but are very engaged in our kids lives and have great chats with them on drives to training/matches where we talk about school and friends. We get loads on info on these drives and keep a good eye on their moods.