BFFs child is an A-hole

[bigfacthunter]

My best friend is the sweetest smartest woman around and a very lovely diligent mother. We were slightly friendly before becoming parents but then we happened to have our first kids at the same-ish time and through baby hangouts we’ve become very close friends. Our sons are now almost 5.

The thing is… her son is a bully. He’s smart and manipulative and often very mean. He seems to really relish in turning children against other children and creating rivalries. At 3 I started to notice he was a bit mean but assumed it was a phase. Now they’re almost 5 I see he’s just getting more and more unpleasant. My son loves him and would do anything to be on his good side (and avoid being on his bad side). So IMO I really don’t like the dynamic that’s being established between them. It’s not positive and I can see my DS’ behaviour getting worse in his company.

WIBU to distance myself from this good friend on that basis? Or should I stick it out because 4 is still so young and the onus is on me to parent my child appropriately so he can stand up to people like this? Or should I say something to her? I have no idea what I could even say. I am aware we parent quite differently. I am stricter, she’s on the gentle parent side of things (although whether she parents that way because it works better with his volatile character I have no real idea).

Distance. 4 yo is too young for this crap and your no 1 duty is to your child

How about seeing her socially in the evening instead? Just the two of you?

Shame to not bother just because of that - he might grow out of it one day.

Talk to bff and keep your child away from him.

Definitely stop doing play dates as it is unhealthy for your child. I would just make excuses, don't say why unless happy to risk the adult friendship.

But also you assign a very large amount of planning/deliberation to a still very young child, I don't think that's healthy on your part.

He might grow through it, or not, but five is early days, so see how he is in the future.

He’s 5, I thought you were going to say he was 15.

I agree with doing adult only meet ups. I also think you shouldn’t judge a 5 year old too quickly or (as a pp says) credit him with such deliberate choices in his behaviour like trying to create rivalries. Maybe next year he’ll grow up and yours will go through an awful phase.

I think you’re right. I do try to keep that in check. I often wonder if I’m adultifying him because he’s so so clever, a great reader and amazing at drawing. I do have to remind myself that he’s just a little child (and I’m always lovely to him if stricter than he’s used to which he absolutely hates but I’m just doing how I do with mine).

But at my most objective I just can’t help but notice that there’s always a rivalry of two (or more) against one when he’s around and he is never ever the one getting picked on. He’ll steal things from one child and plant it in the pocket of the other child and then tell everyone that second child is stealing. He whispers things into my son’s ear like “David’s mum hates you” and “Ellie says you’re really ugly” and my son believes every word. And most likely he’ll grow out of it and become a lovely older child/teenager/man because his mum is such a nice person but right now it’s hard not to wince at how it affects my child.

It’s a very good idea. I’d hate to lose contact with her. We don’t actually do it much at all but I might try push it a bit!

I have no doubt we have our own share of terrible phases ahead!! 🙈

And I know you’re right, he is so little I should be careful about crediting him with making choices about his behaviour. As I said to a PP I think just because he’s so intellectually advanced I let myself forget he’s actually emotional on the same level as the rest of them. So I will definitely try to be very mindful about that. But in the mean time I do feel like I need to prioritise my child, particularly as he’s just about to start school. I don’t want him to start already having form for trying to impress and get onside with bullies.

He whispers things into my son’s ear like “David’s mum hates you” and “Ellie says you’re really ugly” and my son believes every word.

That settles it. You keep DS away from him. Comments like that will destroy DS's self esteem and confidence and set him up for a lifetime of issues. No more 'playing'. Whatever it does to your relationship with the mum you put your son first.

OMG he sounds awful! I would definitely keep your son away from him. The only way to deal with people like that is keep a distance from them. As an adult you’re more fully formed and are more resilient, so these words won’t have so much of a formative impact (although they do still hurt, no matter if you know the person is just an arse and the words probably not even true).

You don’t need to understand that sometimes your ‘friend’ is saying untrue things just to make you feel crap at 5. :( I don’t think there is a useful lesson to be learnt here.

I agree with this.

He’ll steal things from one child and plant it in the pocket of the other child and then tell everyone that second child is stealing. He whispers things into my son’s ear like “David’s mum hates you” and “Ellie says you’re really ugly” and my son believes every word.

Wow. This is really unusually sneaky and yes deliberate for a 5 year old. Have you told his mum when you hear or see him do this - hard to do I know?

He whispers things into my son’s ear like “David’s mum hates you” and “Ellie says you’re really ugly” and my son believes every word.

When you catch him doing things like that do you say anything to him? Or his mum? “Hey a-hole child don’t say things like that - it is untrue and unkind”

It needs to be recognised and addressed because he thinks he is getting away with it.

You should definitely raise it with his mum - but in the moment as these things happen so she can deal with there and then.

It seems a shame to withdraw from the friendship just because her child is behaving like a little shit.

That’s extremely concerning behaviour from a 4 year old.

Have you never brought any of this up with her at all?

Yes, he will turn your child into someone who always seeks validation from mean people.

Go low contact.

Saw your update, 💯 no more play dates.

That’s how I feel but I worried I was just wrapping my child in cotton wool and maybe I should help him be more resilient.

You need to raise it with his mum, that's really odd behaviour for a 4 year old. Does he have older siblings he could be picking it up from? If I was his mum I would be embarrassed but I would also appreciate it being brought to my attention by a friend so it could be nipped in the bud. He is unlikely to understand the impact of his behaviour at that age and needs a lot of support from adults to understand it and change. Otherwise he could be a nasty bully making lots of children miserable when he gets older .

This is my ultimate concern

If I were your friend I’d want you to tell me. Maybe she isn’t aware to the full extent, or needs a kick up the bum to deal with this. 4 year olds aren’t all like that - this is concerning.

I haven’t, I have no idea how to approach it. I think she’s finding him super difficult, no wonder

I would call her and explain how you’ve been feeling and just tell her what her DS has said to your DS and tell her you’ll support her if she gets some help with his behaviour. You will have to distance the boys right now but happy to meet in the evenings for dinner and drinks

My son loves him and would do anything to be on his good side (and avoid being on his bad side).

It sounds like a negative friendship is starting to form. As pp said change to adult meet ups and protect your son from this. Most 5 year olds won’t be able to stand up for themselves and say no to behaviour like this boy shows. If you keep on making you son meet up with him then you are enabling and condoning this boy’s behaviour. Hopefully some time apart will help the boy mature and be kinder.

I call him out every time, whether his mother is there or not. He just hates me now and avoids me wherever possible.

I think the mums become so used to it that she thinks it’s normal small child behaviour, my child is also a shit lots of the time so we talk about what shits our kids can be but I’ve never said “but yours is different” no…

100% keep your child away from him. He is either a sociopath or a psychopath. My cousin was like that, as in a friend would give us some crisps as kids and she would say don’t eat them as she said she “saw” the friend spit in them beforehand.
Very weird and untrue then and she got worse over the years. Have gone NC and it was the best thing I did.

Keep your son away from this horrible child.

His Mum is nice but weak and that is the LAST THING this kid needs. I would lose a bit of respect for her tbh.

Feel free to mix with her socially but away from the kids.