BFFs child is an A-hole

[bigfacthunter]

My best friend is the sweetest smartest woman around and a very lovely diligent mother. We were slightly friendly before becoming parents but then we happened to have our first kids at the same-ish time and through baby hangouts we’ve become very close friends. Our sons are now almost 5.

The thing is… her son is a bully. He’s smart and manipulative and often very mean. He seems to really relish in turning children against other children and creating rivalries. At 3 I started to notice he was a bit mean but assumed it was a phase. Now they’re almost 5 I see he’s just getting more and more unpleasant. My son loves him and would do anything to be on his good side (and avoid being on his bad side). So IMO I really don’t like the dynamic that’s being established between them. It’s not positive and I can see my DS’ behaviour getting worse in his company.

WIBU to distance myself from this good friend on that basis? Or should I stick it out because 4 is still so young and the onus is on me to parent my child appropriately so he can stand up to people like this? Or should I say something to her? I have no idea what I could even say. I am aware we parent quite differently. I am stricter, she’s on the gentle parent side of things (although whether she parents that way because it works better with his volatile character I have no real idea).

I suppose at least with a child like this your child encounters socially you have some control over the situation and can intervene more, compared to if there was a child like this in his class at all. So you could work with him on strategies to deal with this boy because next time he encounters a similar child you may have very little opportunity to input.

How do you know about the stealing/planting when the boy’s Mum doesn’t? Is it because your son has told you? I would be having a quiet, careful word if that’s the case.

Definitely spend less time with the DS. Are they going to different schools?

Your DS has already shown a lot of resilience.

It is time to step in before he thinks that the behaviour is normal.

It is extreme isn’t it? I’m not sure what the issue is. As I’ve mentioned a few times, I think he’s probably pretty gifted intellectually so he’s used to having a bit of “power” over his peers in that respect. He’s also very funny so kids are naturally drawn to him.

He does have a cousin who’s slightly older who has SEN and has had a difficult experience with DV in their household (out of it now thank god but definitely has a lot of anger issues to work through). Maybe her input could be influencing him? I don’t know.

I need to think seriously about what I could say to the mum. I know I’d want to know, even if I found it difficult to hear at the time.

I had this with a friend with a nasty kid. Loved the friend. The kid was awful (and grew up into an equally awful adult).

Definitely avoid contact with the kid and keep your child away from him.

Don't say anything to the mother. That's a recipe for disaster and a destroyed friendship.

If BFF was the smartest woman around, why has she brought up her DC to bully other kids?
Sounds like being the sweetest mean she's failed to parent or set boundaries for her child.

No not at all. We have spoken loads about our kids being difficult at different times but I’ve never said “I think your DS is more difficult than most other kids his age”. I’m aware that the mother has other issues with him in that he won’t do anything he’s told and is very dangerous/wreckless in general (climbing, jumping, darting in front of traffic) so she has a constant constant battle for basic day to day life, I wonder if she’s so stretched dealing with all this that she can’t even see the social (or anti social) behaviours.

I’m gong to make sure of that yes

See that’s what I think, I’d want to know. She has told me that her mother has tried to intervene and she wasn’t really able to take it on board. She said “what can I do though? It’s just this phase isn’t it?” And I didn’t agree but I didn’t have the heart to say no because she’s so exhausted and overwhelmed. But I do feel like I owe it to her to communicate something. Maybe I’m waiting for the perfect moment.

Fair point! Although she does have another child who is completely regular, just usual toddler behaviour. I think this particular child has an issue which I can’t pinpoint at all.

Yep, I agree. I would keep him away from my child, and personally I’d tell the Mum why.

That behaviour needs highlighted and nipped in the bud.

Adults normalising their kids shitty behaviour is just shit parenting. No point telling her she’s a shit parent. Just meet up without the kids. Let someone else give her the wake-up call she needs.

This is what I wondered.

Yes my son told me about that one and a few other things I’ve seen myself. I do wonder if my son could be fibbing but that type of fibbing isn’t really in his nature, he’s not perfect but is pretty transparent on the whole. whereas this kind of story does fit in with what I’ve seen of this other kids behaviour.

I had this. Sometimes it is best to call it a day. I couldn’t keep putting my son in that position.

This is unusual behaviour for a 5 year old. I would keep them separate.

Well this is possible too.

That crisp story sounds like something this boy would do. He did the strangest thing the other day to me. He asked me what colour my jumper was and I said it’s blue. And he argued with me for about five minutes that it wasn’t blue. He got really angry and aggressive. I have never had a conversation with a child like that. Was that a first attempt at gaslighting??? It felt like he was trying to be cruel if I’m honest and I didn’t like the idea of him doing the same to other little kids, I imagine it would be pretty distressing. Hmm.

yes I think he would benefit from much stricter parenting but I’m definitely not an expert.

Every child I felt wasn’t right, potential bully, mean kid at this age I’ve been right about. My Yr6 DD is in a class where there is a small group of trouble makers and outright bullies, one I never liked at nursery and preschool, and she has turned out to be exactly what I thought she would be. Another, not a bully but is very much couldn’t give a shit if she gets in trouble sort and just laughs at teachers when she gets shouted at. The 3rd I met at 5 and I wasn’t sure, I thought she could go either way, but she’s sadly turned into the ring leader.

i think these characteristics do show through from a young age. Some children it’s a phase they grow out of but I think if your instinct is saying otherwise I’d definitely distance your DS away from him.

Personally I think spending time with people who are mean and make you feel crap just makes people accustomed to being treated poorly by friends (and others), forming relationships with dodgy people and having weak boundaries, and it normalises weird, abusive behaviour. It’s one thing dealing with it at work or school or whatever, but from a ‘friend’ much more confusing. And damaging in terms of self-image and self-esteem. Whereas if it’s the ‘other’ being vile, the division between acceptable and poor behaviour remains a lot clearer.

I think a great lesson here is not to be friends with people who are mean to you or others.

I think your instincts are spot on and it’s fine to create distance. Like others have said, see the friend without the kids.

Distance yourself. Her son is mean and a bully and your son shouldn't have to be forced to put up with this.