Adolescence - AIBU to be so worried?

[Netflixandchill25]

Long time poster, penis beaker/anal at Center Parcs. Name changed for this post only.

Like everyone I’ve watched Adolescence. And as the parent of a boy (and girls) I am so worried.

From reading about it before watching it, I had hoped it would be a clear cut explanation for the murder - to do with social media exposure/incel. I have a Y6 boy who is not having a smartphone, and knows that, so I feel like I’m already avoiding the traps of SM for now.

But episode 3 in particular. The boy reminded me so much of my eldest (Y6). We are northern, so even the accent. But more than that, the attitude, the cocksure-ness, the aggression in just his words, before he started shouting and being physically aggressive with the therapist.

My DS has ASD and ADHD, he’s hopeless at sports, he’s quirky, his self esteem is clearly very low. He reminds me of Jay from the Inbetweeners when he’s trying to impress, he makes stuff up at the drop of a hat. He’s not popular and he knows this, he knows who the popular kids are. He has got a couple of good, close friends, they’re a bit like him really, but I don’t see the same self esteem/desperate to impress issues in them when they’re together. They’re not really popular either but they seem much happier in their own skin.

He masks in school and we’ve never had any big behaviour problems there, although took him a while to settle and Y1 was tricky as it affected by lockdowns.

The message I’ve taken from Adolescence is that it’s always the “weird” ones, isn’t it? And that’s consistent with what we hear from the US about school shootings. The Columbine case sticks out - quirky, “weird” boys who were bullied, never felt they belonged.

DS is aggressive at home and we don’t know how to manage it. A lot of it is verbal aggression, intimidating behaviour (I don’t even think it’s his intention to intimidate, it’s more a fight instinct linked to his neurodiversity).

I don’t know what I can do to help him turn out ok. We support his neurodiversity as much as we can whilst making sure he’s held to account for unacceptable behaviour, but nothing seems to have long lasting effects. We don’t have huge behaviour problems, he’s not destructive or majorly physically aggressive. Yet. But neither did Jamie in the show. I can so easily see that becoming my DS, his low self esteem and the front he puts up because of it.

Oh my god @OnePeachPombear ! How old? Again this is the sort of thing my DS would hear (not yet thankfully) and think it sounds so hilarious and repeat it even if I say it’s rude. I think I need to get more serious about explaining what these things mean. It worked for “gay”, he knows why it’s insulting to use that as an insult.

I thought your mum was a quote from the nineties - I can remember classmates using it and we're are in mid forties.
Maybe the meaning has changed.
Agree that girls end up as victims but they are not the little angels we consider them to be and can wind up the boys in word and action.
Certain girls were known as PTs when I was younger (prick teasers I believe) leading boys on and then rejecting them - not an excuse for the boys behaviour but teenage boys have a self control/ hormone mismatch.

What, specifically about this OP's son? 🤔

See OP. The language is so ingrained the poster doesn't even realize what a skip fire this whole post is. Start to finish.

What Adolescence was about was that the dad didn't have the capacity/ ability to understand who Jamie was and love him unconditionally (before the murder obviously!)

If the dad could have embraced Jamie's love of art, and history and space and respected him for it it might have been different?

You seem to think your son is weird and are worried about 'social suicide'... well bollox to all that - teach your child to truly love themselves and they will find their path and tribe.

Oh yes, I very well remember being called a prick tease plenty of times in the 90’s.

It was always after I had been friends or simply nice and polite to a boy, but then he would try it on (mistaking my being friendly for attraction) and simply by turning him down I was suddenly a prick tease.

I had hoped that these attitudes had changed, obviously not. Truly shocked by your post and I genuinely hope you don’t have kids.

That guy was completely estranged from his family, who reported him missing and had hired private investigators to find him. Apparently he had cut off contact with his friends as well . His mother also said that she could see him doing something like the shooting. It does suggest there were ongoing significant mental health problems that the family were aware of.

What the actual?

1. Absolutely "your mama/your mum" was an insult in the 90s. On kids TV too. "your mama's so fat, when she sits on a rainbow skittles pop out". Don't think the meaning has changed one bit. It was sexist and demeaning then. Still is.

1. I'm glad you agree that girls are victims of male violence

1. Does winding boys up mean that they deserve to get physically or sexually assaulted. Or killed?

1. Prick teasers? Are you kidding me? That's a revolting phrase. Has the concept of consent passed you by?

1. The OP is asking for help to bring her son up to be a decent boy and man. How is the behaviour of his female peers relevant to his behaviour and choices? You can't possibly mean that boys aren't responsible for their actions can you? Poor defenceless boys have no control where their hands and penises end up. Oops there was a bread knife on the end of his fist when he fell over and punched her 7 times.

1. Do better

With the verbal comebacks, this could be autism related. Its common for autistic children to use “stock phrases” because they find reciprocal conversation difficult or they feel under pressure when you ask a direct question. Perhaps you could try to replace them with less offensive stock phrases. Speaking to him in less direct ways might give him more time to respond.

My autistic son says he wishes he did not have a phone until he was the age he is now...nearly 18. It feels cruel to deny them, especially in state school settings when they are already othered and bullied and they want to fit in. But listening to him I wish I had stuck to my immediate choice of not giving him one. I gave in because I couldn't hear him to be more different.

Phones are peer pressured on to them, and they are a horror. Be honest, to us they are often upsetting, non stop, distracting, lead to envious thoughts, anxieties about the world, difficult to moderate use. Imagine that for a young mind. We expect too much from them to cope with material online, the viscous trolls, bullying etc.

However, he said online gaming was a lifeline for him and he has friends on there that are genuine beacons of joy to him.

I would get him to play downstairs when he was younger, door open when he was a bit older upstairs.

OP, what sort of things does he enjoy doing as a family?

If he has free time at home, what are his chosen activities? What would he see as a fun treat?

I agree with whoever said above to let him be himself as much as possible without masking at home (that isn’t to say you have to allow bad or abusive behaviour, of course). But try to suss out how he feels genuinely most himself, most whole and relaxed. And give scope to that as much as you can. I do think it sounds like you’re doing a good job, though!

Why the assumption that children will have a smartphone the minute they stay secondary school? There are other phones out there
https://smartphonefreechildhood.co.uk/alternatives
my children will not be getting smartphones too at least year 9. Just no need for it

The thing is, he will have a smart phone at some point in his life and you will have failed that vital learning/parenting preparing him for that. I don’t agree with handing a dc a phone at 11 and thinking job done. There’s an opportunity to set clear boundaries to help your dc learn safe use. My dc are now year 12 and 9 at secondary and things have happened but they have always come straight to me and said “mum please can you help” because I’m here to guide them and I’ve set that relationship and level of expectation up in advance. Even my 17 yo will talk openly.

You worry your dc will feel different and alienated yet you’re setting him up for being excluded from friendship groups rather than supporting him to safely engage.

I get it, the fear is awful and many dc seem to have no parental support to learn safe phone use so that’s the picture you get, but it’s not one way or the other, there’s a middle ground.

I don't understand the assumption that because you will do something as an adult, you need to do it at 11.

The older he is the first time he gets a smart phone the better, because he will be more mature. This is especially relevant when discussing children with autism/ADHD as they're often years behind socially. Most parents on MN have smart phones, but didn't have them at 12. We didn't implode because we received them after secondary school, but we're far more able to sift through the swamp of social media.

To be fair levels of intimate partner abuse is very high in LGBTQ relationships, I can't remember the data but am sure it said even more so than in heterosexual relationships.
I have personal interest so have previously looked this up

The commonly cited figures about abuse in lesbian relationships include women who have actually suffered abuse from a man. It’s a well known “gotcha” used to put lesbians down. Women are far, far less likely to seriously harm or murder other women.

From experience, and observations of other teens, it’s far easier to set firm rules about phone use at 11. Give a 16 year old a phone and try putting in that same level and you’ll have a battle. Giving a phone at 11 doesn’t mean access to social media. My dc do not have tictok (17 yo does and got it at 16). Going from nothing to everything at 16 is a lot.

I guess for me it’s like I’ll happily let my dc taste my drink when I have alcohol. Does that mean I hand them a bottle of vodka? No.

I agree women are less likely to seriously harm or murder other women... I should have added that onto my post

I think it's really good your raising the question now and thinking about how you can protect the mental health of your DS. I am a teacher and I have AuDHD myself. People with ADHD and Autism can become quite obsessive or addictive when it comes to phone/internet use as it is one of the quickest dopamine hits out there. I think it is great he doesn't have a phone and I would definitely try to ensure access is restricted moving forward.

For people with AuDHD they are in a constant battle against themselves. It is like living with two different people within you - this can cause a lot of anger and frustration. I wonder if it might be worth seeking a therapist or coach who specialises in ND. Perhaps someone who is also male, to provide a role model in this regard?

There are also lots of podcasts and books out there that really tap into the amazing things about having ND brains. It is hard to do and could take a while, but it will be important that he is supported to find the thing or things that really light his fire. ND are well known for having strong entrepreneurial skills too - something to consider as he gets older. On top of this he will need to feel like he is useful and needed - perhaps creating him a job within the home that is really helpful to everyone that only he can do? Small steps to build up his self esteem will be really important.

Definitely speak to school too, as a teacher I would want to support him. A lot of children mask at school and then explode at home - there is a lot we can do at school to try and lessen the explosion when he gets home. The transition to year 7 will be important too - making sure they have all of the information and can continue to support. There will be more lessons though for him to discover what he enjoys best.

I don't know how to answer the question about how we ensure boys respect girls - it seems like such a big one. Education, strong female role models and protecting them from misogynistic content online is part of it - but I think there is a lot more work to do as a society.

You sound like a lovely mum, who really cares.

I am truly shocked by your naivety and lumping all males as sex beasts and feel sorry for your male kids.
Sorry to offend you but I have children and my son's have been brought up with good male role models and know that they need to be cautious how to interpret signals from girls and wait for a definite yes or no

Thanks for the additional replies. I am standing firm on the no smartphone until DS is older. He will have a normal phone for Y7 so he can message etc, there’s a few options on the market now so I’ll do some research. I know I’m not the only parent although we’re in the minority I’m sure.

He has a laptop he can do homework on, we have a couple of “family” iPads as well as a family console so he’s certainly not missing out. When his friends come over they game together on those. He doesn’t need a smartphone.

DH and I had a good chat yesterday about a few rules we can do and also things we can do. Being more present, not just there. I cuddled up with the DC and a film after school yesterday, usually they’re watching tv separately/on devices whilst I get dinner ready. I compress my hours so that won’t be possible every day when I’m working but yesterday it was and I made sure I was really present rather than just there.

@Netflixandchill25 it’s important that DH is really present too. A good male role model is so important, a role model that doesn’t display or accept misogynistic behaviour

The other message that came across is that not all boys like football and boxing which "Jamie's" father pushed him towards. I know it is fiction but the father was a plumber - get him to help with DIY.

On the 'your mother' insults...it reinforced the idea that women are there to be insulted and degraded, seeing women's worth as secondary in relationship to men, rather than individuals of value and worth. It reduces women to caregivers, only valueable in relation to the men in their lives, being used as tool or a weapon to undermined the men in their lives. It's misogyny, and normalising this type of language, normalises demeaning and objectifying women, which creates a culture of acceptable violence against women and girls.