Entitled kids - what do I need to understand?

[OudAndRose]

For context, I am childfree so not always sure what normal expectations are for kids because I have limited frame of reference.

I have two nieces by my sister, age 6 and 9. They are the only kids in the family and get lots of attention and spoiling (but nothing excessive) as a result. In the last year or so they have become really entitled imo. They never say thank you for gifts, treats, trips out or effort made for them, and they will openly ask for things they want from me and other family members. Last weekend I went over for the 9 yo's birthday and took gifts and cupcakes for her, and she didn't say thank you, even after prompting. She asked for her present as soon as she saw me and then didn't engage after that. At Christmas I gave her little sister a gift worth about £50 and a card. She opened the gift and then asked me if there was money inside the card (there wasn't!). Other times I have seen them recently they always ask me for things - treats, toys that they see and want - and at the same time are quite dismissive of me.

There are lots of little behaviours like this and it's really putting me off spending time with them, but I feel like as an adult I should rise above it because they can't be expected to know better - just wondering if others would agree, or expect more of them? None of my friends' kids behave like this - they aren't angels but they are always grateful for any gifts, treats etc., and if they aren't their parents are mortified, whereas my sister and BIL never really notice or pull my nieces up on this.

YABU - all kids do this kind of thing at some point, don't overthink it
YANBU - it's rude and not the norm

I had a rule that the kids didn’t get gifts on arrival, they came out after we had made small take, made tea etc, and then gifts handed over. Asking for gifts in itself is rude.

I probably see them every couple of months, so not really - it used to be more often but they seem less interested in spending time together lately (in parallel with this behaviour). I haven't pushed it though.

I think it’s always difficult to say something when it comes to other people’s children, even if they’re family. We tend to allow things we normally wouldn’t.

Yes, exactly - and to be honest I'm not sure it would make much difference if my sister and BIL are not enforcing it as well.

I don't intend to try and correct them now, either - but may well pull back on the gifts and treats.

Their behaviour is rude and it’s the product of poor parenting.

They are treating you like a bank, not an Aunt.

I would have been mortified if my DS had behaved like this and there would have been swift repercussions.

However, there was never a need as instilling good manners was (to DH and myself) an important part of good parenting.

I’d have a word with your sister and let her know how poorly their behaviour reflects on her. I’d also be clear that unless they start treating you a person rather than a cash point then the gifts will stop.

IME the vast majority of children at that age do not behave like this and even if they did why on earth would you want yours to be part of that cohort?

Spending time with spoilt rude nieces and nephews is awful. I have two kids the same age as your nieces and mine would never be so rude and entitled. You should say something to your sister like “I won’t be doing presents anymore as they aren’t appreciated”. I always call out rude behaviour from young family members, the kids suffer in the long run if no one does it.

All children can be ungrateful little shits sometimes. That’s why they have parents or adults to check them. This is an issue with the parents, the 9 year old can’t really help it. I have a lot of nieces and nephews, and when my oldest niece was born she was the first baby in the family. She could be a right spoiled brat at times. Not her fault, it was my brother and SILs fault, my parents fault, and even a bit mine. We were all over indulgent with her. It took a whole family effort to nip it in the bud. She is very polite and nice now, as are the other kids, but it did take time, and she threw some horrific tantrums. To unspoil a young child is genuinely very difficult, but possible, but it has to be your brother and SIL who lay the foundations.

In my experience kids are naturally quite grabby and can see adult family members as a source of presents. Parents do have constantly reinforce the need for appreciation and thank yous.

It sounds like your nieces are being spoilt. I'd start only giving a book or putting a small amount of money in their account. I do that for my nephews just because they do have so much stuff.

My kids sometimes acted like this with people they felt vert familiar with. They are older now and well mannered- it took them time to learn all the social niceties. Their behaviour could sometimes be lovely- sometimes be awful!

On mumsnet the reaction to behaviour like this can be a bit over the top at times. Many kids are not perfect while young - and most turn out ok despite that.

I am sure they will turn out fine because I don't think they have any wider issues and I am not even sure they are this rude to anyone else tbh. It's more that I was unsure whether my expectations were realistic. This thread at least makes me feel better than it is ok to be hurt by it, even if I can't change it (though I can stop pandering to it with gifts and treats).

Looking back at my nieces and nephews when they were young — and before i had kids - i was sometimes horrified at their behaviour! Their parents were good but a bit chilled about it all.

They are aged 16 - 30 years now and all well adjusted lovely people. When my own children are acting like horrors now, it helps me to keep things in perspective - knowing they will grow up and mature.

Kids can be self centred at that age by nature, but their parents should be correcting them/raising their awareness. I am more than happy for my nieces and nephews to ask for treats etc. at our house as they get more than at home (as ours do in their homes) because it’s special time together, but I also expect them to accept a no and behave with respect to everyone.

If you do buy them anything again, I would suggest an experience you can do together, so you’re building a relationship beyond one that they sadly see as transactional.

I agree with all PP. your sister should not be condoning this behaviour.

No all kids arnt like this - but sadly more and more are not given boundaries and are becoming like this.

I tried this but they didn't take me up on it so they gifted experiences went unused.

It sounds as if you don't have much of a relationship with them - they view you as the source of "stuff" rather than someone who spends time with them and invests in them in that way.

If you care about them, I would definitely pull back on the presents and stuff, but instead focus on experiences you do together. Take them out to a cafe, offer their parents to help them with homework, take them to their clubs once in a while, make pizza or bake with them. When you know and love the child, you can overlook the bad manners to some extent and just gently correct them and model good behaviour as far as you can and hopefully some of it sinks in. But without that bond and without the parents doing their bit to promote good manners, the influence you can have is limited.

I stopped giving my nieces and nephews gifts because of this ( they were in their teens, so old enough to know). Did give again at big birthdays (18 and 21).

Still no thank yous!

I’m surprised at the posters excusing the bad behaviour of the girls. Unless there are SEN issues it’s not difficult to teach children to say please and thank you. Obviously everyone can forget occasionally but to regularly not bother is awful behaviour and a sign of awful parenting.

It's not so much excusing (it's clearly very poor parenting), but it's more that it's unlikely to change and the OP is unlikely to build a bond that will allow her to influence their behaviour unless she spends more time with the girls. Up to her of course whether that's something she wants to do.

I had a young relative who was acting like this. I stopped spending time and efforts on gifts, and just gave a fairly low value gift card, with a note to say I was sorry they hadn’t liked their previous gifts so was giving them the chance to chose their own. Their mum then said they had like their previous (expensive!) gifts, and I explained that I didn’t think they could have as they never said thank you. I can’t say it changed their behaviour at that stage, nor encouraged the parents to change either, but at least I stopped feeling resentful. Once they were in their late teens their behaviour improved massively, I think influenced by their peers, so there is hope!

Very very unappealing but not their fault. It’s how their parents are (not) bringing them up.

I have really tried hard to do this - I don't want to describe details here because it could be outing, but many of my friends have told me they wish their own siblings would be as thoughtful an auntie as I have tried to be to my nieces. I really do care about them and when they were younger we spent more time together and they were not like this. They don't take me up on offers to do low-key things (playdates, baking, arts and craft days) anymore and when we do, they behave like this - asking for things and being ungrateful. I always gently course correct but the behaviour has started to feel quite hurtful, hence my trying to understand how normal it is (or not).

It makes me want to pull back from them - I guess that is what is really bothering me, because it feels like it would be easy for the relationship to become quite transactional if I do and that seems like a sad outcome for our family, but I don't want to keep feeling mugged off. I am very good at boundaries with adults but honestly, when they do this it leaves me feeling like I am running around after people who quite obviously don't see me as a person in my own right - just someone they can get something out of. Hence wondering what I can reasonably expect of them / how much to just ignore it.

Pull back op. You are not a cash machine. Use your money to enjoy your life. Sadly it sounds like there has been a woeful lack of parenting.

My former Step-MILs GCs were ungrateful shits.

Being pensioners, she and exFiL could only afford one present. So they would buy them something for a birthday or Christmas, and they hever got thanks for it. The daughter never backed up her mum. One day, they came to give DGD a birthday present which she called crap and said, did you bring anything else? So they left the house (despite having been invited to tea) and exStepMiL said she won't be back until her daughter taught her kids some effing manners.

Didn't work though. They are still entitled shits.

Before I divorced she would send her GCs money in lieu of a present and they would text their Granny and say it wasn't enough. Eurgh.

My exH used to whinge at me because I would insist DD write a card or ring up to say thank you for gifts (my family don't live nearby). My neice & nephew have always contacted me with thanks. It's basic effing courtesy.