Schools shouldn't teach cursive writing

[IShotTheDeputyItWasMe]

When I grew up, we'd learn to write using print ie not joined up. Then a few years later we'd have to re-learn in cursive. I remember finding relearning quite difficult eg the way "s" is written is very different. What was the point in teaching print and then expecting everyone to use cursive?

A lot of primary schools now teach cursive from the off.

But why teach it at all? Not many adults write pure cursive and sometimes cursive, particularly messy or very elaborate cursive can be really hard to read. It looks nice sometimes but what's the point in using it when print is much easier to read and most adults use it or a variation of print anyway.

I deal with old documents that are always written in cursive and they are a nightmare to read.

Personally, I mainly use print but do join some letters. But my writing is odd anyway because I also did calligraphy and have incorporated some of that too. My capital "h" is ridiculous!

DS was taught cursive from the start. His writing his awful. He’s a teenager now and having to learn how to print. During lockdown I realised he had no idea which letters needed horizontal joins rather than vertical joins and that took a lot of time to put right. He had poor fine motor skills and I think learning cursive didn’t work for him at all

And as professionals there's nothing to stop them from writing to the Secretary of State for Education and copying in their MP and the Director of Education at their Local Authority. It's what committed professionals should do and it would raise the public's opinion of the profession. They could demonstrate they had thought through the intellectual arguments rather than rote quoting mantras.

DD was the same. It all improved once cursive became a memory.

If they were taught properly using handwriting books (as I was 60+ years ago) it works.

But it has to be done properly every day (even if only 5 minutes)

But as most children don't have proper pencil holding (which is much more comfortable and efficient) enforced, it's a struggle

How does that work when Chinese characters are taught to be printed clearly, yet the overall standards of mathematical ability and attainment are so much higher?

I learned cursive in Year 6. No way can I write quickly and legibly. It's quick and messy or slow & neat.

It's faster. I think though that more children struggle to learn it (perhaps?) because they don't have solid pen skills and grip. When mine were learning in the early 2000s they'd had years of scribbling and doodling with crayons and pencils and had very good pen grip already on getting to school (as did most of their contemporaries). Maybe there is less time spent these days during the pre school years on those skill and more on screen time?
Not judging and saying one is better than the other - just that might explain why kids find it onerous

Oddly the DD who took a longer time than most children getting the tripod grip (and even now at 20 it is probably a modified version) was the one who really excelled academically. I'm not sure if I even hold a pen "correctly", and I'm a lawyer and writer! My school was more concerned with the content of your writing and firing your imagination, not how you held a pen.

Oddly the DD who took a longer time than most children getting the tripod grip (and even now at 20 it is probably a modified version) was the one who really excelled academically. I'm not sure if I even hold a pen "correctly", and I'm a lawyer and writer! My school was more concerned with the content of your writing and firing your imagination, not how you held a pen.

I think this post speaks for me too.

At my first primary school, back in the days when dinosaurs roamed, we were "taught" cursive, though it was only showing us the letter forms. Proper teaching is actually needed. I'm probably dispraxic (counts bruises on legs) and my fine motor skills are weak. My cursive was unreadable, even to me. I was forever being criticised and disciplined, but not actually taught to do better. I was a bright child so the school was especially cross with me.

My parents, luckily took the view that if the school were relying on me to do the teaching then perhaps there was something wrong with the school so moved me. At my next, and last primary, the teacher decided that the entire class had poor handwriting so she found a new cursive, as in "joined up writing" system to teach everyone at the same time. It had far fewer flourishes, curves, did not require the more ornamental capital letters, etc and withing a few months the entire class was legible again. It was an Osmiroid system, but not their "calligraphy" system. I have never managed to find it again, but it saved me.

All these years later, my career has been full of papers, minutes, reports etc and I've found that although I can type quickly with all fingers, if I want to remember a meeting or get my ideas clear in my head, I will always revert to handwriting. Notes I write via keyboard go in one ear and out the other. So I'm fully signed up to the studies that suggest that our brain is engaged when we use pen/pencil and paper in a way that is lost if we are purely keyboard based.

Teach kids to write. It's a great life skill. And as they will need keyboards, teach them to type properly too. It will save them from so much inconvenience. But these skills have to be taught effectively and also practiced. It's more than - "there's a keyboard, put your fingers here and there," and "look at how I write this complicated capital letter."

YABU and what's taught in UK schools isn't even proper cursive handwriting!

We learned looped cursive in Ireland which is proper joint up writing.

In this country, you would probably have to go back to the 1940s for that style.

I'm not sure, anecdotally, DD1 who would happily spend hours drawing and colouring from the age of two or three took ages getting the right grip. DD2 never did as much of that and preferred playing outside and physical play and got it straight away. But still doesn't really like writing! She has ADHD and ASD but anything physical and practical she picks up very quickly.

I have to be honest and say I loved teaching cursive handwriting. It was usually one of those slow, creative restful lessons where we did a lot of talking and drawing and just enjoying 'putting pen to paper' as it were. I even had a set of dip pens and bottles of ink for children to try out and those were very popular.
We often started out just doodling to get a feel for long lines and curls and using pens as opposed to pencils.

I bloody hate cursive. My year 6 dd may not reach age related in her sats as her handwriting in cursive is often not very good, especially when she has lots to write and is concentrating on the content. Print is much better for her. She is at greater depth for her reading but her teacher is worried she won't get age related for sats due to the handwriting. My handwriting is lovely and never wrote in cursive. I can't see why they wouldn't let them write how they feel most comfortable!

I agree. We've just had parents evening and a lot of parents queried the use of cursive because their children's handwriting has deteriorated.

I completely agree. Presentation is awful. It's not required at secondary. But it's in the curriculum, which we have no say in or control over. Our books are monitored specifically for cursive handwriting when we have a handwriting focus.

But, for a lot of children, it's an untidy scrawl. I can't see who or what that benefits.

I don’t really understand this though from what I can tell they don’t actually get “ marks “ for handwriting in the comprehension or maths etc during SATS

Agreed - the only consideration for handwriting in SATs is to make sure the marker can actually read the answer! It’s the writing assessment which is not based on a test, but instead based on teacher judgements from across the year that is affected by handwriting.

I have to admit, I judge adults who write in print a bit. It looks really childish, I think.

I don't see how there's anything wrong with encouraging kids to work on their handwriting. It takes work but good handwriting can be really beautiful and uniformity in letter formation makes marking work so much easier.

Also, poor handwriting can, and does, lose marks at GCSE level. People forget these things are marked by hand and if they are not legible they will not be marked favourably, regardless of content.

Agree - I often feel that "cursive" vs "print" discussions should be forced to include photos of the kind of writing you mean!

I think it's quite artificial to be forced to join some letters (q's, anyone?) but anyone writing more than a few words will naturally start joining them up. I realised that some people consider this "print".

I consider "print" to be anything with completely separate individual letters and would indeed be shocked to see an educated adult writing like that, unless they were an elderly engineering draughtsman or something! But I wouldn't be shocked to see an educated adult writing with mostly-joined up, non-frilly handwriting with "unauthorised" join styles and some letters not joined.

The written answers have to be legible to be marked, though.

They can't eg ask the child to conform what is said and then give the mark if they can't read it.

This it what I mean, my daughter became so upset and upset over the handwriting issue and as a parent I made sure she was told that it had no effect on abilities in education. I can see reading this thread that the issue that we face as parents of children with difficulties is that they are written off so young because one element that really is not that important. Like I’m not going to tell my 11 year old who is reaching high potential in all her classes including her SATS that well none of that matters because she hasn’t met the correct level of handwriting.

Yes but If a child is struggling with one type of writing then surely as you say it’s best that they write printed to be understood. 🤷‍♂️

As the parent of a child ( now teenager) with Dyspraxia and hypermobility in their hands - cursive writing was ( and still is) illegible and was counterproductive for the mental health of my child - who had to have neat handwriting to be able to get their 'pen licence' in primary school.

We invested time in teaching him how to touch type - via BBC dance mat

I'd much rather read the printed round "bubble" hand writing than spikey loops where "There" looks the same as "These".

(I don't have bubble writing btw).

I saw a funny picture the other day where someone posted a supposed love note from a secret male admirer. It was written in round bubble writing and someone commented "that no man, in the history of writing has written like that". 🤣

Because it’s not the only path to those benefits. Chinese character writing achieves similar effects through a different route — more visual-spatial, more memory-based — yet still highly beneficial for mathematical thinking.

also in china there is early and intensive math instruction, parental and societal expectations and curriculum focused on this

surely you don’t think that kids can excel at math by doing cursive alone?