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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

To think I have at least some sort of case against my employer? Or am I being deluded?

187 replies

Galllp · 22/03/2025 08:50

Length of service is 9 years. New manager arrived while I was on maternity leave. I came back from maternity leave a year ago in Feb and it’s been pretty awful ever since. I’m in a mid senior role.

Since returning I’ve utilised the flexible working policy as I am alone with my DD in the week (husband works abroad) and I do all nursery runs and so on. Manager is aware of this and there is no company policy that dictates number of days in the office. I tend to go in fortnightly. I feel my choice in doing this is relevant.

Since returning I have been given absolutely minimal work. I’ve been given trainee tasks and tasks that relate more to administration like amending a spreadsheet for example. I have had some decent work from seniors who aren’t my manager and had good feedback. But from my manager it has been fragmented and very inconsistent. We had a six monthly meeting in September where he said overall he was happy but we’d look to promote me next year (this year) and some waffle about pay when I said it felt unfair I was the only one not included in a proper pay review process when returning from maternity leave.

Fast forward to this February and the next six monthly meeting takes place. I’m told he wants me on an informal PIP. I was quite shocked by this but went along with it and he put in weekly meetings to discuss my ‘progress.’ Since this has been in place he’s given me a total of 9 hours work. Two tasks he hasn’t fed back on at all and one task (a draft of a document) he changed everything possible in it on a stylistic basis. He even changed certain wording that he himself has previously used.

The weekly meetings have been a total waste of time. He’s spent perhaps 6 minutes talking each time and essentially saying there’s no improvement as far as he’s concerned. I don’t know what to do from here as I am utterly confused by it all and looking back he’s made comments like I work from home too much so I’m not getting the work (this is utter bollocks as one other woman in the team works from home almost exclusively and he’s extremely (too!) close to her). She is given plenty of work.

He’s said i am too focused on home life which is ridiculous. Clearly i have responsibilities as a mother but i am dedicated to work, always available and will happily work well beyond 5:30 into the evening where needed. He knows this.

I feel like he very much wants me to leave and is picking at any small thing to make life hard for me. I know when you’re in the middle of something like this it’s hard to know if you’re not seeing both sides. Am I feeling victimised unnecessarily? I’ve never had any issues at work before.

OP posts:
BobbyBiscuits · 22/03/2025 12:03

When you say you've only been given nine hours worth of work...over what time frame?
Has this been logged? It makes it sound like they're just paying you to literally sit there doing nothing? I guess possibly tactically. Is another person now doing the work you previously did?

The whole thing sounds really odd. Surely you must have set tasks that you just need to do on a daily or weekly basis without being allocated small bits of admin?

MsCactus · 22/03/2025 12:05

Can you ask both him and his boss for more work? Point out that before maternity leave you were given X amount of work and now you are never given work to do - it feels like your daily tasks have deliberately been made redundant following maternity leave and state clearly "can I please have more work. If there isn't any available in this department then please from other departments" etc. basically point out what he's doing to those more senior.

Simultaneously, apply for other jobs NOW

thankyounextplease · 22/03/2025 12:19

Yeah he just wants you out. I would agree with getting professional advice on this. As you've been there 9 years you have rights, and with your pregnancy on top I would be exceptionally nervous as a company about being on the other side of this.

I'd look for jobs but in the meantime work toward getting a payout from the company to leave - it may only need a sternly worded letter and a meeting.

Ignore all the people talking about asking for more work etc - that's not going to fix this situation. He obviously wants you out.

Pigsears · 22/03/2025 12:23

I have had some decent work from seniors who aren’t my manager and had good feedback.

Are these people at the same level as your manager? Did they know you from before mat leave? Are you still getting work from them? Could you move over to be managed by them?

I read into it that your manager doesnt know you. The first 6 months review he has given you the benefit of the doubt, but the last 6 months feels like he maybe doesn't need you/ work well with you. He isn't giving you work- the work he does give you, he picks apart or doesn't review. He wants someone in the office more- you say another person is wfh and gets loads of work but it's clear he works better with her (maybe she was in more and established a relationship with him when you were on mat leave?)

It's going to be very very hard to turn this around

I'd be looking for something else outside the org AND inside with the seniors who you know and are giving you work.

Crappy advice to go sick btw- because you arent. Your avenues inside may be impacted by this. You need people on side.

Ihavenoclu · 22/03/2025 12:29

Galllp · 22/03/2025 09:01

Thanks. I think realistically there’s no future here for me but I am really resentful of leaving without a job to go to and being forced to jump ship and not take my time over it. At this point I would leave but I need a buffer. I have spoken to a lawyer very briefly and their advice was to go off sick if a formal PIP is requested and raise all the issues to get them to settle with a few months pay. No idea if that would work and I feel sad this is where I am at after 9 great years working for the company

This is what I have done in the past. PM me if you need someone to talk to.

Squidgemoon · 22/03/2025 12:36

Are you a solicitor OP? It sounds like it from the way you describe being given work etc. My advice to you would be:

  1. Start looking for a new job immediately. It’s generally a buoyant market at the moment, it shouldn’t be hard to move. This manager wants you out, so accept it and you’ll probably find a better role quickly and at higher pay. While you’re looking …
  2. Go to the office more. Out of sight is out of mind.
  3. Be proactive in seeking work from people other than your manager.
  4. Fill your time with BD so you can try and generate your own work.
Donttellempike · 22/03/2025 12:48

RoachFish · 22/03/2025 10:32

It’s pretty clear that they need you to be present in the office more so if you are concerned that you are being managed out maybe start going in to the office every other day or so? I think they are looking for some commitment from you and they are probably worried that all of the childcare is on you whilst your child's other parent gets to fully focus on their job all week. To them it probably sends the signal that your job is the least important one in your family which isn’t great for any employer.

Really? that’s direct discrimination on the basis of sex

EBearhug · 22/03/2025 12:51

Ignore all the people talking about asking for more work etc - that's not going to fix this situation. He obviously wants you out.

Don't ignore them - you have to look like you're playing the game and trying to do more, not that you've given up and are just waiting till you can leave.

I would also be looking for other work, getting things in writing, but I'd be making sure I look visible, have asked for work, within the department and outside. If someone wants you out, you can't give them a hint if a reason to sack you rather than make you redundant. Plus you will probably want a reference in the future.

jeaux90 · 22/03/2025 12:56

Couple of things as a senior/team leader. Do you have objectives and goals? If not how is he supposed to measure you? He can’t put you on a PIP if there is nothing to measure your performance against. Not giving you work could be seen as constructive dismissal so yes I would have a meeting with HR or a solicitor of there is no HR.

bridgetreilly · 22/03/2025 12:59
  1. Talk to HR
  2. raise a complaint with his line manager
  3. talk to your union
  4. get absolutely everything documented in writing
101Nutella · 22/03/2025 13:06

join a union and take a rep with you to every performance meeting.

read your policy and every time they don’t follow it you can push back on it being progressed. lodge a complaint with HR and your union rep helping you.

send emails asking for work and reminding on what’s been done (as requested) so you have an audit trail.

this all sounds very weird and would he say to a dad that he was too family focused? I’d raise that with HR. Get things in writing, follow up every meeting with an email detailing the summary. And ask him to reply if anything needs changing. Do not have meetings alone with this one.

Userlosername · 22/03/2025 13:08

Galllp · 22/03/2025 09:01

Thanks. I think realistically there’s no future here for me but I am really resentful of leaving without a job to go to and being forced to jump ship and not take my time over it. At this point I would leave but I need a buffer. I have spoken to a lawyer very briefly and their advice was to go off sick if a formal PIP is requested and raise all the issues to get them to settle with a few months pay. No idea if that would work and I feel sad this is where I am at after 9 great years working for the company

He’s very clearly managing you out. You could argue his real reason for doing this is because you’re a woman with childcare responsibilities (and this may well be true) but he will say it’s because of your performance. He will likely move to terminate you soon op so I would take legal advice asap.

the best time to challenge this would be before the pip was mentioned- then you could have argued it was victimization because you made a sex discrimination complaint. Now you’re mid way through the pip, he will argue you’re only saying it because you’re not performing.

it’s a horrible situation to be in op - I’ve been there. I wish you all the best.

Elsadutton · 22/03/2025 13:09

at this point you need to cover yourself.
Gather any emails/instant messages/anything else in writing of you asking for work/feedback received on your work etc. If you don’t have any, make an out of asking via email/IM.
Take screenshots of these on your phone, don’t email to yourself as this is traceable and may contravene company policies.

Create a timeline of dates/meetings/discussions/comments and keep adding to it.

Having this narrative to present to HR/management can strengthen your position if you raise it further.

Everytime you have a meeting to discuss the PIP/performance, follow up with an email afterwards summarising/asking further questions/stating your actions/etc if they aren’t sending you anything already.

Regarding the ‘informal’ PIP, this is something that my company does as a first step before the actual PIP- but it is still part of the PIP process steps, it is essentially giving you a heads up.
In some companies, it can be a case of needing to find the lowest performer and putting them on a PIP, when in other years they might scrape through, this could be for upcoming cuts or resource strategies.

Check any company policies regarding performance, redundancies/layoffs, sickness. Some will clearly state the steps for these scenarios.

WRT to lawyer’s advice to go off sick, yes it is not entirely ethical but neither is how this is being handled. If you do go out sick, there is probably no going back from it at that point so if you do that you need to think about the probable outcome.

Some manager’s just aren’t direct at handling these things well. It may not be right, but not everyone has the leadership skills to have these conversations effectively. Have a think about if you really haven’t been performing well/coming across as checked out/etc.
not being visible in the office is a big thing, particularly if others are coming in. If there is no formal policy regarding hybrid working, they are limited in how they can hold you to account over it, so it may be they aren’t hanky but limited in what they can do. It is up to you to decide if it is worth coming in.
Look for anything you can work on proactively and do any work you can in the meantime. Not being productive may mean the difference between being laid off (with settlement/severence) or just being fired.

Good luck, it is tough.

Canthelpmyselffromjoiningin · 22/03/2025 13:10

I could have written some of this 2 years ago and its soul destroying. I had a change of manager during maternity leave, my new boss didn't like me, constantly undermined and sidelined me, I ended up with less responsibility than the junior analyst who had reported in to me prior to maternity leave. I recommend contacting pregnant then screwed, who were supportive, they put me in touch with a law firm who advised there was grounds for constructive dismissal and discrimination on the basis of sex. In the end I didnt pursue this, but it did help the conversations with HR. I quietly quit and spent a lot of time job hunting whilst being paid a senior managers salary to do barely any work. It took me a year to find the right job but I'm so much happier, even though part of me is cross he forced me out. What helped me was to keep a record of everything, every time he undermined me in a team meeting I followed it up with an email outlining what was said and asking for feedback, which he never answered, every time he refused to let me do a task I was responsible for before mat leave I emailed to ask why. I then started copying in HR as he never responded in writing and never gave me an opportunity to stop being sidelined. It's horrible, especially at a time when you already feel vulnerable, but it will get better, just make sure you've got a written record of how you're being treated. If other people in the organisation value you, maybe you could move sideways out of his orbit. It's not fair and they should be made to pay for the way they treat people but that could be an impossible battle.

Userlosername · 22/03/2025 13:11

Donttellempike · 22/03/2025 12:48

Really? that’s direct discrimination on the basis of sex

its probably not but it could be unlawful indirect sex discrimination if there is no business reason for it.

ArabellaScott · 22/03/2025 13:13

Galllp · 22/03/2025 09:01

Thanks. I think realistically there’s no future here for me but I am really resentful of leaving without a job to go to and being forced to jump ship and not take my time over it. At this point I would leave but I need a buffer. I have spoken to a lawyer very briefly and their advice was to go off sick if a formal PIP is requested and raise all the issues to get them to settle with a few months pay. No idea if that would work and I feel sad this is where I am at after 9 great years working for the company

'Going off sick' if you're not sick is dishonest, and I don't see that that would be in any way helpful.

OP, I'd advise talking to seniors about this. Perhaps your manager is victimising or bullying you?

LakieLady · 22/03/2025 13:13

treesocks23 · 22/03/2025 10:30

I don’t think you’ve fully answered what @TheOtherSide21 was asking though. Understood that you don’t lead a team but a number of people here have raised that’s unusual to ‘ask for work / tasks’ to be given to you and that normally you would just go and get stuck in, have you’re own job description and day to day deliverables. That’s the thing that’s confusing most of why you need to wait for that to happen? Was that how it worked pre maternity?
Might be just a very different system for a sector I haven’t worked in but it seems unusual.

Exactly what I was thinking.

Do you have a job description, OP? If so, who's doing the work that you should be doing, according to the JD?

Userlosername · 22/03/2025 13:19

EBearhug · 22/03/2025 10:32

There is always a union. There may not be a recognised union (involved with group pay negotiations etc,) but you can still be a member of a union, and they can give advice on individual disputes, gelp with grievances and disciplinaries, and in the sort of formal meeting where you can bring someone with you, they can provide a rep to attend with you - my union rep was external to my company, but because he did it full time, was very good at it (which not all voluntary reps in company are.)

The TUC has a union finder tool; if there's not one which covers your sector, there will be a general union.

You’re better to get legal insurance than join a union. Employment lawyers know what they’re talking about- I’ve never yet come across a union rep who had any idea about anything

Soontobe60 · 22/03/2025 13:25

HappiestSleeping · 22/03/2025 09:21

This 👆

Detail is your sword and your shield here. You need to be clear on several things:

  1. What exactly are the tasks you are expected to undertake?
  2. When are they expected to be delivered by?
  3. How are you expected to achieve them? I.e. what does 'good' look like? This one is important, and you need to deliver exactly what is requested, not what you think you should deliver.
  4. Examples of where you fell short, and how it should have been delivered.
  5. A list of exactly what you were given, when you were given it, what you delivered, and when you delivered it.
  6. Are the tasks you have been given actually achievable? That should be flushed out with point 3 though.

It is worth looking for a job while you are dealing with the above as well in order to have a contingency plan. Most managers who put people on a PIP have no clue how to manage the PIP, so with a little thought on your part, you should be able to stand your ground. Be forensic about the detail though, ask lots of questions, make notes, and get them agreed in writing.

She came back from mat leave in February 2024, so almost 14 months ago. I very much doubt that her pregnancy in 2023, over 2 years ago, is something that can be considered.

Userlosername · 22/03/2025 13:25

Gwenhwyfar · 22/03/2025 11:25

"The advice to “go off sick” is outrageous and unprofessional from a lawyer! Basically they are advising you to commit a fraud on your company by claiming to be ill when you aren’t."

Not really. Very few people's mental health isn't affected by being bullied/pushed out.

It really isn’t. If you’re on a performance plan it’s invariably because they’re pushing you out which is hard on anyone’s mental health. It’s also leverage for a settlement.

LIZS · 22/03/2025 13:26

Agree, a senior role should not require being given tasks. You do nursery runs and work beyond 5:30 but is your dd in your care during this time? Was the flexible working request formalised, if not why not? Your “case” needs to be based on an attempt to follow that process and fulfil your job role. If you believe you have and the pip is unjustified then a grievance is next step.

nightmarepickle2025 · 22/03/2025 13:31

Do you have a HR department? Raise a grievance with them for maternity discrimination.

Katrinawaves · 22/03/2025 13:33

Userlosername · 22/03/2025 13:25

It really isn’t. If you’re on a performance plan it’s invariably because they’re pushing you out which is hard on anyone’s mental health. It’s also leverage for a settlement.

If you are on a performance improvement plan it is because your employer is not prepared to continue to employ you working in the same way you have been doing up to now. So no, it’s not inevitable you will be pushed out. It’s also possible to up your game and perform in line with what you are told are the current expectations of you and retain your role.

I’ve only known 3 people to be threatened with a PIP, two improved their performance and stayed in their role for several years before leaving for other reasons. The third negotiated a settlement to leave without going through the process.

The only inevitable bit is that you cannot continue in the same vein as before once a PIP is floated.

Whoarethoseguys · 22/03/2025 13:34

Are you in a union? If so take advice from the. Unions are a great help in situations like this

Also could you put in a grievance against him? I don't know how your system works but it must be possible to put a complaint in against him. Make sure everything is Logged and make sure his boss is aware of the situation so you can prove you have tried to resolve this situation.
If you have to leave you may be able to claim constructive dismissal

Userlosername · 22/03/2025 13:38

Katrinawaves · 22/03/2025 13:33

If you are on a performance improvement plan it is because your employer is not prepared to continue to employ you working in the same way you have been doing up to now. So no, it’s not inevitable you will be pushed out. It’s also possible to up your game and perform in line with what you are told are the current expectations of you and retain your role.

I’ve only known 3 people to be threatened with a PIP, two improved their performance and stayed in their role for several years before leaving for other reasons. The third negotiated a settlement to leave without going through the process.

The only inevitable bit is that you cannot continue in the same vein as before once a PIP is floated.

I’ve worked in this area and in every case I’ve seen a person on a pip is encouraged to leave and forced if they don’t. It might be different for lower cost employees but more senior employees there is invariably no coming back because the relationship is soured.

It doesn’t really matter if someone has been put on a pip for a proper reason or because the manager just doesn’t like them. It’s almost always a precursor to dismissal.