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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

To think I have at least some sort of case against my employer? Or am I being deluded?

187 replies

Galllp · 22/03/2025 08:50

Length of service is 9 years. New manager arrived while I was on maternity leave. I came back from maternity leave a year ago in Feb and it’s been pretty awful ever since. I’m in a mid senior role.

Since returning I’ve utilised the flexible working policy as I am alone with my DD in the week (husband works abroad) and I do all nursery runs and so on. Manager is aware of this and there is no company policy that dictates number of days in the office. I tend to go in fortnightly. I feel my choice in doing this is relevant.

Since returning I have been given absolutely minimal work. I’ve been given trainee tasks and tasks that relate more to administration like amending a spreadsheet for example. I have had some decent work from seniors who aren’t my manager and had good feedback. But from my manager it has been fragmented and very inconsistent. We had a six monthly meeting in September where he said overall he was happy but we’d look to promote me next year (this year) and some waffle about pay when I said it felt unfair I was the only one not included in a proper pay review process when returning from maternity leave.

Fast forward to this February and the next six monthly meeting takes place. I’m told he wants me on an informal PIP. I was quite shocked by this but went along with it and he put in weekly meetings to discuss my ‘progress.’ Since this has been in place he’s given me a total of 9 hours work. Two tasks he hasn’t fed back on at all and one task (a draft of a document) he changed everything possible in it on a stylistic basis. He even changed certain wording that he himself has previously used.

The weekly meetings have been a total waste of time. He’s spent perhaps 6 minutes talking each time and essentially saying there’s no improvement as far as he’s concerned. I don’t know what to do from here as I am utterly confused by it all and looking back he’s made comments like I work from home too much so I’m not getting the work (this is utter bollocks as one other woman in the team works from home almost exclusively and he’s extremely (too!) close to her). She is given plenty of work.

He’s said i am too focused on home life which is ridiculous. Clearly i have responsibilities as a mother but i am dedicated to work, always available and will happily work well beyond 5:30 into the evening where needed. He knows this.

I feel like he very much wants me to leave and is picking at any small thing to make life hard for me. I know when you’re in the middle of something like this it’s hard to know if you’re not seeing both sides. Am I feeling victimised unnecessarily? I’ve never had any issues at work before.

OP posts:
Mumofoneandone · 22/03/2025 10:46

Join a union asap.
Start making notes of his behaviour towards you - times/dates/comments etc.
Talk to HR.
Flag up the lack of work he is giving you and also the low level of it.
Are you able to change teams at all.
Look at the company grievance policy - consider putting in a grievance about his behaviour towards you.
You may have to consider a settlement/employment tribunal as this sounds like possible constructive dismissal or discrimination - maternity or sex.....

AnSolas · 22/03/2025 10:53

SockFluffInTheBath · 22/03/2025 09:44

A colleague of mine was put on an informal PIP, turns out there’s no such thing- in my company at least. I’d involve HR and join a union, and document every mortal thing.

The "informal" anything is normally about if and when informatuon is carried forward in the HR employees file.
Its still a HR step
It is usual that informal is dealing within the line management function and once the outcome is achieved the record is only held for a specific period of time with in the department (data protection rules have changed the process somewhat as orgs need to be able to access the information).
The "informal" process should still be documented in the orgs policy and be structured.

Nessastats · 22/03/2025 10:56

Haven't read the full thread but id recommend speaking to the charity pregnant then screwed.

They're not just for discrimination in pregnancy but for mothers.

FlippityFlippityFlop · 22/03/2025 10:56

You need to get a paper/email trail of everything. When you ask for work - do that in an email "Hi Boss, I currently don't have any tasks on my workload - what would you like me to pick up next" or "Im currently doing XYZ but still have 50% capacity to pick up other things". If they respond verbally, you follow it up with an email "when we spoke earlier today you said that there were no tasks to pick up - please let me know when this changes. I will of course pick this up and ask again in our 1-2-1"

Katrinawaves · 22/03/2025 10:56

The other thing to bear in mind is that this is a new manager for the team. He came in when the OP was on maternity leave and as a new manager he’s entitled to make changes to how things are done and to drive improvements and efficiency. He might even have been tasked by his boss to do so. The other members of the team will have been further along the change curve than OP when she returned from maternity leave. If she was stuck in her pre-maternity leave mentality and is trying to perform in the same way you can see how this situation could have arisen without any discrimination at play at all.

NH84 · 22/03/2025 10:58

Similar happened to me as soon as I told my boss I was expecting. Pregnant and then screwed are excellent and will provide with a steer. As others have said you need to start creating a paper trail. Also, write out a timeline of what’s happened when, and make copies of anything you have in writing (where you can without going against company policy). After each conversation with him, if it’s not appropriate to email him confirmation/recap of your conversation then write up your notes and email them to yourself so that it’s timestamped.
Good luck and don’t let the b*stard get you down. He sounds like a misogynistic pig. You might not want to stay after this but you can definitely out him for his bias, and hopefully be compensated for the bad treatment

UpMyself · 22/03/2025 10:59

Home - Pregnant Then Screwed

JustWalkingTheDogs · 22/03/2025 11:00

It might be worth you speaking to your hr directly.

Go to them with a documented timeline of what he said re promotion. Also the meetings and the documented conversations (let’s hope you have this) from your informal meetings. Also add in the number of times you’ve requested work and how he’s missed assessing you on all tasks.

it sounds like he’s quite an inexperienced manager who doesn’t know how to handle things, he may be being pushed by his manager to cut costs or manage people out of the company.

Take charge and push this forward yourself, you need to manage your manager via HR and formal channels. Are you in a union ?

MinkyWales · 22/03/2025 11:06

Join a union. Make sure you do all your communication by email, and make sure you have taken copies of them. Keep your evidence safe.

Jggg · 22/03/2025 11:10

Galllp · 22/03/2025 08:50

Length of service is 9 years. New manager arrived while I was on maternity leave. I came back from maternity leave a year ago in Feb and it’s been pretty awful ever since. I’m in a mid senior role.

Since returning I’ve utilised the flexible working policy as I am alone with my DD in the week (husband works abroad) and I do all nursery runs and so on. Manager is aware of this and there is no company policy that dictates number of days in the office. I tend to go in fortnightly. I feel my choice in doing this is relevant.

Since returning I have been given absolutely minimal work. I’ve been given trainee tasks and tasks that relate more to administration like amending a spreadsheet for example. I have had some decent work from seniors who aren’t my manager and had good feedback. But from my manager it has been fragmented and very inconsistent. We had a six monthly meeting in September where he said overall he was happy but we’d look to promote me next year (this year) and some waffle about pay when I said it felt unfair I was the only one not included in a proper pay review process when returning from maternity leave.

Fast forward to this February and the next six monthly meeting takes place. I’m told he wants me on an informal PIP. I was quite shocked by this but went along with it and he put in weekly meetings to discuss my ‘progress.’ Since this has been in place he’s given me a total of 9 hours work. Two tasks he hasn’t fed back on at all and one task (a draft of a document) he changed everything possible in it on a stylistic basis. He even changed certain wording that he himself has previously used.

The weekly meetings have been a total waste of time. He’s spent perhaps 6 minutes talking each time and essentially saying there’s no improvement as far as he’s concerned. I don’t know what to do from here as I am utterly confused by it all and looking back he’s made comments like I work from home too much so I’m not getting the work (this is utter bollocks as one other woman in the team works from home almost exclusively and he’s extremely (too!) close to her). She is given plenty of work.

He’s said i am too focused on home life which is ridiculous. Clearly i have responsibilities as a mother but i am dedicated to work, always available and will happily work well beyond 5:30 into the evening where needed. He knows this.

I feel like he very much wants me to leave and is picking at any small thing to make life hard for me. I know when you’re in the middle of something like this it’s hard to know if you’re not seeing both sides. Am I feeling victimised unnecessarily? I’ve never had any issues at work before.

Things aren't really adding up here. Did you go back to the same role as before maternity leave? If so, how did you get job tasks back then? You describe your role as mid senior role, I would expect someone in a mid senior role not need to be given tasks to do, but to self manage their workload. E.g at best I'd describe my role as mid level role, I get given tasks maybe once a month, rest of my time I am self managing job tasks relevant to my role. My employer knows I'm doing my job because I am delivering what I am being paid to deliver (as opposed to being paid to sit in office doing few admin tasks).

Working from home means doing work at home. If there is no suitable tasks to do from home then you need to go to the office. If you truly are in mid senior role then you should be able to figure out your responsibilities and not need someone to give you tasks to do. The way you have painted the picture here is that they have a senior employee who is sitting at home doing absolutely nothing who is also not even bothered to come to the office, I'm not surprised they are not happy with that.

I'm not saying the employer is perfect either. The new manager should have clearly laid out the expectations for the role when you came back if these had changed. They should have discussed the fact that the current flexible working arrangement wasn't working long time ago. And the PIP should have come with clear measurable attainable targets.

At this point it seems that neither you or the employer wants to continue working together and I'd look for another job.

Codlingmoths · 22/03/2025 11:10

Send him a daily email saying what you’ve done, tasks he’s given you: none, people you’ve asked if they need help with anything: at least one other at least as senior as your manager, and say can I ask again if you have any other work you’d like me to do? Before going on maternity leave I used to do x y and z most weeks, as an example. I believe you are asking Sarah to do those things now.

build your case, and make him sweat when he realises you’re not a pushover and he’s going to have to reply and justify himself to others. Take even the thinnest excuse to cc others.

Bestfootforward11 · 22/03/2025 11:14

Start documenting things with a timeline if you can. Your requests for work with dates- am assuming this is by email? Your submissions of work with dates and detail of feedback given with dates also of when no fb given etc. keep a record of what is said in your meetings with him, is this put in an email after? Is there anyone else you can speak to there?

ByQuaintAzureWasp · 22/03/2025 11:17

Daisydiary · 22/03/2025 08:55

Pregnant then Screwed can help you.

It's over 12 months since she returned from maternity leave so not really relevant

ByQuaintAzureWasp · 22/03/2025 11:18

I would go to his manager and complain about unfair treatment, cite examples. Perhaps ask to be transferred to another manager.

AnSolas · 22/03/2025 11:19

Katrinawaves · 22/03/2025 10:36

There are two ways of interpreting this though. The manager is OK with people working from home and another woman on the OP’s team makes this work very well.

What he could be telling the OP is that he has concerns about her output and quality of the work she is producing from home. What we know about the OP is:

  • she does not have enough work to fill her working hours. So what is she doing at home during her downtime? If she was in the office it would be very obvious she had no work and something is more likely to be found in the moment.
  • when asked to produce a document for her manager she copied language from a similar document of his - Cut and pasted?
  • The work she did produce needed very substantial revision by him to meet his expectations
  • she would have no qualms about taking sick leave when not sick - what is her attendance like? Her husband works abroad so what happens when the 2 year old is sick and can’t go to nursery?
  • he says she is too focused on home life. What does that mean and why did he say it? Does it mean for example that she takes time out of her working day to attend events at nursery without booking annual leave for this? Or doing other home related activities during working hours more frequently than he would
  • like?

there could be a lot of very valid concerns which are not discriminatory and the fact that when she first retuened back from maternity leave he was discussing pathways to promotion with her does suggest that her current fall from grace is due to her performance not meeting her new managers requirements rather than discrimination against her because she has a child.

Since returning I have been given absolutely minimal work. I’ve been given trainee tasks and tasks that relate more to administration like amending a spreadsheet for example. I have had some decent work from seniors who aren’t my manager and had good feedback. But from my manager it has been fragmented and very inconsistent. We had a six monthly meeting in September where he said overall he was happy but we’d look to promote me next year (this year) and some waffle about pay when I said it felt unfair I was the only one not included in a proper pay review process when returning from maternity leave.

I read the paragraph to be that the OP raised the issue of her not getting the same HR processes applied as had been applied to the other staff. And that pay and promotion should have been on the table then not in a years time.
Plus that she had not been worked back into the team.

But i agree there is an issue with how productive the OP is on a day to day and what regular tasks are assigned when not being given specific/project tasks.
Flex-working is more about doing XorY to a delivery deadline rather than being at a desk for a fixed period. But it may involve core work hours so that people can be assured the other people are available for contact so if the OP is showing OOO a lot people may be finding workarounds on time critical issues. But the manager has not managed the issue over the 6 months or given feedback before the Feb meeting.

I think the manager has opened the door by not being specific about what needs improving as issues raised after the process begins look as if the manager is moving the goals to make sure the OP fails.

Most ET are about winning by proving that fair process was or was not applied.

Allergictoironing · 22/03/2025 11:22

Depending on your relationship with them, I'd consider copying your grandparent manager in on some of the emails. When your manager asks for "improvements" and says your work isn't good enough, ask for clarification of his expectations and copy his boss in. Same for when you request more work from him, or guidance on what things he would like you to change. Ensure you keep copies of all emails along these lines and as others above have said ensure everything is confirmed by email (not PM), and document all interactions.

If you don't really have a relationship with his manager, start to build one now. Work on your relationship with your peers especially ones you knew well before going on mat leave and casually ask them what changes they needed to make when your boss first came on board. Also try to discreetly find out whether they have too little, just enough or too much work so you can gauge whether your boss is trying to get rid of you through performance to save making you redundant. Obviously if they are feeling their workload is heavy, that will show clear discrimination against you.

Remember that if you do feel bullied or discriminated to by your direct boss (and yes this seems like that to me in some aspects), you do need to go to your grandparent manager and request a meeting. Via teams may be better than face to face so you going in to the office then meeting with them there is likely to be noted by others, and ensure that the cameras are on as you can read an awful lot from facial expressions & body language. Make sure you have a clear list of the issues you feel are there so you don't forget anything, including clear examples, and be prepared to be asked for this detail in writing & copies of any emails that back this up.

Emphasise the fact that without SMART objectives and/or guidance you can't possibly know what improvements are expected of you, and that your output can't possibly increase if your boss refuses to allocate work to you. Ask your grandparent manager for suggestions and advice on ways they feel you could improve your performance etc - in theory any staffing issues in his team should have been mentioned by your boss to them in their own 1:1s.

Don't be afraid to use the words "discrimination" and "bullying", these can be triggers for them to tread very carefully as an employment tribunal could end up very expensive both financially and reputationally for them if anything is proven.

And don't be afraid to let your emotions about how you feel show. Unless you have a reputation for being a cryer or emotional this will show them just how much this has affected you. They can't even try to blame this on hormones either, as you are well past that stage post birth.

Gwenhwyfar · 22/03/2025 11:25

"The advice to “go off sick” is outrageous and unprofessional from a lawyer! Basically they are advising you to commit a fraud on your company by claiming to be ill when you aren’t."

Not really. Very few people's mental health isn't affected by being bullied/pushed out.

Bogginsthe3rd · 22/03/2025 11:27

Galllp · 22/03/2025 09:44

@TheOtherSide21 thanks. In this industry mid senior is not management. It means supervising some junior staff but not managing a team.

It sounds to me like you have mis interpreted your job role for whatever reason. Why are you waiting for someone to hand you work and not developing the team that you manage and being more innovative? Sadly it may be that you are just not that good at your job rather than being victimsied.

Gwenhwyfar · 22/03/2025 11:29

Katrinawaves · 22/03/2025 09:38

Is that not literally his entire role as reviewer of the document?

If one of my direct reports produced a document which was factually wrong or had poor analysis, then that would be a professional incompetence issue and they would be on the way out the door pretty quickly. Changing the structure of the document to ensure it flows, and refining the wording or changing the emphasis to align with corporate priorities is what the senior reviewer is there to do and what adds value to the business. If all the senior reviewer is going to do is rubber stamp it, then the more junior person might just as well submit the report directly (and in most cases that is what happens and the review process is reserved for more important reports)

Yes, but you know that there are people in some workplaces who change things just for the fun of it and not all changes from someone higher up will be improvements.

FiveBarGate · 22/03/2025 11:29

How are you filling your time? You said your boss gave you 9 hours work but assuming there are other things you do proactively?

Are you always online, always visible, available, respond promptly etc?

I think you need to start documenting the others things you do that demonstrate you work to an appropriate level. If he is going to rip apart tasks he allocates on what you believe to be a personal basis, build a bank of other evidence.

It would be useful to document what you do each day and the value of that to the business. If you can't do this then you are on a more shoogly peg.

Gwenhwyfar · 22/03/2025 11:35

"If she was in the office it would be very obvious she had no work "

Not really. But in this case the manager knows she has no work anyway.

MissRoseDurward · 22/03/2025 11:39

In this industry mid senior is not management. It means supervising some junior staff but not managing a team.

So do you have junior staff to supervise? What does that involve and how much of your time is it expected to take up? Are the junior staff office based or all WFH?

Tiredofallthis101 · 22/03/2025 11:46

OP if as you say it is normal that you are hanging around waiting for someone to give you work I would be getting your side of the story down in writing. 'Hi Bob, you've only given me 9h of work in the last two weeks. I don't feel I am being fully utilised. Do you have any cases for me?' Etc. Keep nagging twice a day. Can you do some other proactive stuff like teach-ins or mentoring for junior staff? Try to source new clients? Etc. I would definitely be looking for a new job though, whether a move within the company to a new manager or a new role altogether.

k1233 · 22/03/2025 11:52

Galllp · 22/03/2025 10:11

@Growlybear83 he says ‘not at the moment.’

Always ask ixn writing. If he responds verbally, email confirming the conversation and restate to send work your way.

Ottersmith · 22/03/2025 12:01

He sounds like a prick