Would you advise your DD to go into the trades?

[ItsFineReally]

1. University fees are now significant
2. We're always in need of plumbers, plasterers, electricians etc
3. Women often find it hard to find good flexible work while their children are young

Considering the above, why aren't there more women in the trades, and have you raised it as an option with your daughters when discussing future job roles?

Absolutely. DH is a builder and would be thrilled if our DD wanted to do it as well. We know a few women in the industry and they are treated with respect from other trades. They take no shit though.

Not particularly more than any other jobs where we have shortages.

I advise my children, of both sexes, to consider apprenticeships before sixth form or university, even though they are often harder to get into and often involve going through many interview processes to get - my DS did well over 60 for the one he's in now - engineering of any kind is notoriously difficult - while DD struck it lucky on her first one, though partially because hers is in education. While associated with trades, apprenticeships. go well beyond that.

My concern with many trades is less the risks of being in homes, and more the expense of start up. Most of the trades being discussed involve driving which has its own expenses, and many will be expected to start getting their own equipment over time. Many of the ones I've seen near me, it's stated that these are expected if not at the start, then by the end of the first year. I wouldn't want to encourage that on a teenager who hadn't already been earning their own money for some time unless they were already strongly interested.

I left teaching to become a self employed gardener with my husband. A lot of our customers (often female and elderly) like that I’m a woman. I think there’s a degree of trust already there. It’s physically demanding though so you’ve got to be tough, especially in the Winter which can be brutal. Something to think about if she’d be going into a trade which is outdoor work. It can be flexible but it is long hours at times.

My partner is an ex sparkie . I wouldn’t want either of my dd,s getting a trade because of how he described life on site .

Not all trades and not in a blanket fashion. If it suited the Dd in question then maybe.

That's what's good about aircraft maintenance - you're not even allowed to buy your own tools, let alone expected to (for safety reasons all tools must be owned and managed by the maintenance company whether you work directly for them or as a subcontractor)

Oh yes once you have proved your self and they know you take no stick it gets easier. It's getting to that stage that's the bother.

My daughter became a joiner/ carpenter/ handy person.
She was making very good money being self employed.. but unfortunately Covid put her in a wheelchair.. she now has a neurosurgeon.. a Orthopaedic specialist.. a physio and OT nurse.
A Rheumatologist and other nurse/ specialist.
They are looking into if we're covid itself or the vaccines.

I am reminding my daughter of this option but with a caveat that it means she’s at the mercy of her physical health if she is relying on strong hands etc. I unexpectedly have become very unwell in my 40s - can still work my office job but wouldn’t manage a physical job

Yes if she was that way inclined. But much more likely she will go in to social policy or academia as that’s her passion.

@PurpleThistle7 we have this. Some days dd has to change an awful lot of car tyres. They're not light, she's 6ft tall and long in the body and knows she has to protect her back.

I will encourage my dc to go into jobs that they show an interest in. I certainly wouldn't nudge them towards jobs they hadn't mentioned appealed to them.

I'm not sure if you're cut out for uni if you'd get tge dane job satisfaction from a trade.

I find this a really interesting comment.

I didn't know a lot of different jobs even existed when I was young. So isn't there always an element of discussing the variety of roles that are available, regardless of what children initially show an interest in?

Yes this.

as a teen I had absolutely no idea of careers. My dad’s family were all trade, plumbers, electricians etc. my mum’s family sahm, or basic admin jobs. They had basic life advice typical of that background where if you got into uni they thought that opened the door to earning untold amounts of money.

obviously I knew there were teachers, doctors, vets, police, lawyers etc. people o came across in everyday life. tbh I’d have had no idea how to get into medicine or law even if I’d wanted to. Lots of things like I didn’t know pharmacy was a job, or accountancy. I didn’t know what a PhD was until I got to uni and met lecturers.

i’ve since found a job I think I’d have loved. But it requires a professional degree and I can’t afford fees and 3 years off work to retrain. Again, I didn’t even know it existed as a job until I happened to work in that area for a few years.

dd’s and I discuss every kind of job. From plumber to firefighter to nursery nurse. I’m also encouraging them to hold off uni if they aren’t absolutely sure what they want to do. Better to go at 25 with a career plan than do a degree for the sake of it at 18 then block yourself from retraining later.

I'll definitely let them know about the wide range of careers open to them, yes. It wouldn't suit dd1 at all as she's very dyspraxic, but dd2 would get on well with it I think. I don't think it's their perogative to automatically take a 'flexible' job though, and as others have pointed out it's not actually flexible.

There is an app for female trades, it's called TaskHer. Not sure how nationwide it is but we've had good luck with it.

I think for some people it's a great career and increasingly for women: I have a close (female) friend who's done really well in painting and decorating and made loads of money and is so successful she now teaches it. So if she wants to do it then by all means encourage her. Yes there's sexism but it's no worse than in some industries.

On the other hand I'm a bit sceptical of this blanket assertion that everyone should go into trades and train as a plumber/carpenter because university is expensive etc. It's certainly a great option for some but not everyone wants to or has the aptitude to be a plumber or an electrician and if as many people go into it as there are Mumsnet posters talking about it there's going to be a massive glut in a few years.

I'm getting a bit tired of the kneejerk assumption that everyone should be encouraging their kids to do it. It's not going to be right for a highly academic child who dislikes hard physical work, or an artistic child or one who wants to work in food... horses for courses.

@Thepeopleversuswork I haven't seen the slew of threads of MN about this so apologies if it's already been done to death. My experience has been that the current expectation is still that everyone must go to uni. So I can understand if there's now pushback against that. Obviously it's not good if it swings too much in the other direction.

Mentioning jobs that would fit with their interests, but which they might not be aware of, yes definitely. Of course it's a lot easier for them to find out about jobs in areas that interest them now than it was pre-internet though, just typing in 'What jobs can I do with <X, Y & Z qualifications>?'

Obviously not everyone needs to go to university, but if they are academically and financially able to, why not? It potentially gives them more flexibility, especially if they don't yet know what job they want to do. Dd is in her 2nd year of uni and still hasn't a clue what she wants to do!

It depends on the trade, I wouldn’t ideally want any of ours to join a trade that is known for knackering your knees etc and I would make sure they were aware of pressures with self employment, lack of sick pay etc, I wouldn’t change the advice for just one of ours because shes a girl.

Absolutely not.
i have advised my child to get a job that requires her mind, but not her body. Bodies fail. Bodies get sick. Brains are generally better protected, though not always of course. If you have a top notch education and good skills, even if you get sick or injured, you can keep working.

trades are hard on a body. One good injury or a bad back can end the ability to work. Multiple people in my support group for my adult-onset disability who were in trades now struggle on benefits, while I was able to maintain my lucrative career.

we as a society need people to work in trades, but we have not yet figured out how to truly protect the people who choose that path and then hit bad luck. The spartan safety net available is not a life I want my child to risk

See, I'm not sure about this. I recently dated a guy who had spent his entire professional life in a sedentary, desk based job, and he is fucked- massively unfit, with a bad back. In addition, as he gets older (and he's on fuckloads of meds), he's not the incredibly sharp tech genius that he was once 😬

I do wonder, knowing men, whether some of the manual trades physical degeneration comes from them not looking after themselves. I'm always careful in how I pick up and handle things, do yoga to keep my core strong, etc....I remember when I did a season picking daffodils, I was the only one who'd stop at the end of every row and do yoga stretches, and the other pickers thought I was mad. Guess who was the only one not complaining about their back at the end of the day though!

But also, I think a lot of posters on this thread are comparing jobs in the trades with professional work- due to OP's original question of course. Whereas I'd see them as a good alternative to traditionally female manual work- cleaning, care work etc.

Sure, he has a bad back and he might not be the high flyer he was in his prime, but was he still earning a good paycheck?

Let’s be honest that if life brings you trouble, money makes it much easier to face.