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Why is no one talking about Leaving Neverland 2 Or contradictions of the accusers?

378 replies

leavingnever2 · 21/03/2025 21:45

I noticed no one seems to care about Leaving Neverland 2 or be talking about it. Why aren't more people discussing the factual problems with "Leaving Neverland"?

I've noticed that many discussions about Michael Jackson focus on the allegations without examining the serious inconsistencies in the accusers' stories such as:

  1. James Safechuck claimed abuse at Neverland's train station between 1988-1992, but construction records prove it wasn't built until 1994-1995 - this is a major lie!
  1. Wade Robson claimed his first abuse happened in January 1990 when his family went to the Grand Canyon without him, but his mother Joy testified under oath that Wade went WITH the family on that trip
  1. Robson testified IN DETAIL as an adult under oath in 2005 that nothing inappropriate ever happened
  1. Wade Robson asked Michael Jackson for permission to get married at Neverland Ranch in 2005 - why would he want to celebrate his wedding at the place he later claimed he was abused?
  1. Stephanie Safechuck (James Safechuck's mother) stated in the documentary that when she heard about Michael Jackson's death in 2009, she "danced" and was "so happy he died" because she thought "Oh thank God, he can't hurt any more children." However, according to her son James, he never told anyone about his alleged abuse until after seeing Wade Robson's interview in 2013, and only then told his family about it.

This creates a major contradiction: Stephanie Safechuck couldn't have known about the alleged abuse in 2009 when Michael Jackson died if James didn't tell her until 2013 - four years later.

This is another significant timeline inconsistency that calls into question the narrative presented in the documentary. It's difficult to reconcile how Stephanie could have had this specific reaction to Jackson's death if she was unaware of any alleged abuse at that time. This type of contradiction represents more than just hazy memory - it's a fundamental issue with the timeline of disclosure that the documentary doesn't address or explain.

These aren't minor discrepancies but fundamental contradictions in their stories.
I'm not saying we shouldn't take abuse allegations seriously, but shouldn't we also consider verifiable facts that directly contradict these specific accusations?

People seem to take the documentary at face value, without question - it’s strange to not want to consider all the facts especially when some of them are major.

Honestly, I wouldn’t bet my life of MJ innocence but I also thinks it’s entirely plausible he’s innocent when I heard the above.

Why is there so little interest in most people to examine the full picture/the pure financial greed of these two accusers constantly attempting to get millions after their case is thrown out so many times in Leaving Neverland 2?

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ObelixtheGaul · 23/03/2025 12:30

leavingnever2 · 23/03/2025 11:46

@ClareBlueagree. Whether or not you believe MJ was guilty, it’s severe neglect on their part.

disgusting, but all the hate is directed to MJ 😏

Actually, after the first documentary came out, there was a fair bit of 'hate' aimed at the parents, and rightly so. They certainly should get their fair share, but obviously and naturally, the bulk of the 'hate' will of course, be aimed at the person who allegedly committed the actual offence.

OP posts:
leavingnever2 · 23/03/2025 12:39

Link below is for lies of leaving neverland for anyone who cares to watch..,

OP posts:
Butchyrestingface · 23/03/2025 12:48

leavingnever2 · 23/03/2025 11:46

@ClareBlueagree. Whether or not you believe MJ was guilty, it’s severe neglect on their part.

disgusting, but all the hate is directed to MJ 😏

Because he (allegedly) MOLESTED them.

Acknowledging that doesn't mean anyone thinks the boys' family were shining examples of parental virtue. The two things are not mutually exclusive. All the hate for (allegedly) molesting children SHOULD be directed towards the perpetrator, regardless of the moral character of the victims' parents. The perpetrator alone is responsible for their decision to sexually abuse a child. Why is that difficult to understand?

And how in holy hell did the apparent chief wizard of the UK arm of the 'Michael Jackson Is Innocent' project end up on this site? Are you testing the waters to see whether the past 16 years have dimmed public consciousness of his alleged crimes? Because it hasn't. Like Jimmy Saville, his image isn't going to be rehabilitated except amongst true diehards.

fieldofstars · 23/03/2025 13:13

curiositykilledthiscat · 23/03/2025 12:30

Pots and kettles? It’s not like you’ve contributed anything worthwhile to this thread.

Unlike your refined contributions! Such as:

Nobody is defending paedophiles.

BusterGonad · 23/03/2025 13:34

leavingnever2 · 23/03/2025 11:46

@ClareBlueagree. Whether or not you believe MJ was guilty, it’s severe neglect on their part.

disgusting, but all the hate is directed to MJ 😏

What a crazy comment. Micheal Jackson was the sexual abuser, the parents were obviously neglectful but one doesn't cancel out the other. Michael Jackson was a disgusting child abuser and to say otherwise is absolute insanity.

Shegotanology · 23/03/2025 13:50

MJ was a deeply troubled human. He mutilated his body, he abused drugs and ultimately paid the price, his best friends were prepubescent boys, his children, it has been rumored, were not conceived using his sperm, and he's been accused of horrendous abuse by multiple people.
Some will say all the evidence, that has come to light, points towards him being a pedophile while others will defend him no matter what comes to light.
I think we can all agree that he was full of self-loathing whether that was because of the abuse he suffered or the abuse he dished out. Maybe a bit of both.

silverearrings · 23/03/2025 14:01

How can anyone say, on the balance on probabilities and the evidence available, that he was probably not guilty. I truly wonder about some people. We know that the undisputed facts are: he groomed young boys and their (neglectful) families, had them for ‘sleepovers’, and ended the ‘friendship’ when they got older.

Isn’t that enough to think that if you had to say one way or another, the odds are that he was most likely a paedophile?

Would anyone with even just an ounce of common sense really give this man, if he were alive, the benefit of the doubt and let him have sleepovers with their son? Surely not.

leavingnever2 · 23/03/2025 14:16

silverearrings · 23/03/2025 14:01

How can anyone say, on the balance on probabilities and the evidence available, that he was probably not guilty. I truly wonder about some people. We know that the undisputed facts are: he groomed young boys and their (neglectful) families, had them for ‘sleepovers’, and ended the ‘friendship’ when they got older.

Isn’t that enough to think that if you had to say one way or another, the odds are that he was most likely a paedophile?

Would anyone with even just an ounce of common sense really give this man, if he were alive, the benefit of the doubt and let him have sleepovers with their son? Surely not.

He never ended their friendships as they got older. He was friends with McCaulay Culkin I. Adulthood and there are numerous photos to evidence this,

He also as still friends with Wade - right until his death

OP posts:
Butchyrestingface · 23/03/2025 14:20

If monkeys could speak, I fear poor Bubbles might have quite a tale to tell.

Nanareed · 23/03/2025 14:23

leavingnever2 · 23/03/2025 14:16

He never ended their friendships as they got older. He was friends with McCaulay Culkin I. Adulthood and there are numerous photos to evidence this,

He also as still friends with Wade - right until his death

What are you even on about.

We are not talking about friendship. We are talking about the sexual abuse.

Both wade and james have said that jacko sexually abused them and told them that they were special, until jack met a new child that he sexually abused.

Then wade and james fell out of favour with jacko.

Both of them described feeling tossed aside and feeling jealous of his new favourite boy (who was also a child) .

He kept some kind of a friendship with wade. But wade wasn't his favourite anymore. Wade has described all of a sudden being tossed aside by jacko

silverearrings · 23/03/2025 14:24

It’s interesting that the friendships he maintained into adulthood were with high-profile individuals like Macaulay Culkin and Wade Robson—both of whom were in the public eye.

If maintaining friendships was the norm, why weren’t there more long-term friendships with the many non-famous boys he spent time with?

It seems convenient that the lasting friendships happened to be with those whose continued association could help his public image.

Nanareed · 23/03/2025 14:25

Has anyone counted. How many people have accused michael jackson of child sexual abuse now.

When it's more than one, it's usually true.

silverearrings · 23/03/2025 14:39

Even ChatGPT Thinks Michael Jackson Was Most Likely GuiltyI decided to ask ChatGPT about Michael Jackson’s child abuse allegations, and the response was eye-opening.

When I asked whether the arguments against Jackson were strong enough to create reasonable doubt, this was the reply:

Legally speaking, Michael Jackson was never convicted of child abuse, and his 2005 trial ended in acquittal. However, reasonable doubt in a courtroom is different from what most people would consider common-sense guilt based on patterns of behavior.

  1. The Sleepovers Alone Are a Red Flag
A grown man inviting unrelated young boys to sleep in his bed is objectively inappropriate and deeply abnormal behavior. If any average adult male admitted to regularly sleeping in bed with young boys, without their parents present, people wouldn’t hesitate to call it suspicious—so why make an exception for him?
  1. The Grooming Patterns
Jackson followed classic grooming behavior: Targeted vulnerable children (e.g., kids from broken homes or families that were starstruck). Showered them with gifts, trips, and attention to gain trust. Isolated them from their parents by offering them private time with him, including trips and sleepovers. Dropped them when they aged out of his preferred demographic. This is textbook predatory behavior seen in other convicted offenders.
  1. Multiple Accusers & Consistency of Allegations
There have been multiple allegations spanning decades, with many common details. The argument that all the accusers were "money-hungry" ignores the fact that several risked public scrutiny and testified despite having nothing to gain financially. Even Wade Robson and James Safechuck, who initially defended him, later admitted they had been abused—something that’s common among survivors of child abuse who struggle with denial and manipulation from their abuser.
  1. He Paid Off Accusers Instead of Fighting in Court
If someone falsely accused you of child abuse, would you pay them millions to go away or fight to clear your name? Jackson settled with Jordan Chandler’s family for $23 million, which conveniently meant the case never went to trial. Rich people get sued all the time, but they don’t all hand out tens of millions in hush money unless there’s something to hide.
  1. Other Celebrities Have Been Exposed for Less
If he were truly innocent, why did multiple independent people raise concerns? Celebrities like Jimmy Savile and R. Kelly were also initially defended by fans and the media, but when the truth came out, it was clear they had used their status to hide in plain sight. People who still defend Jackson are repeating the same mistakes that let predators like Savile operate for decades.
  1. His Own Disturbing Words & Behavior
In the 2003 documentary Living with Michael Jackson, he openly admitted to sharing his bed with young boys, calling it "loving" and "innocent." He had a secret alarm system outside his bedroom to warn him if someone was approaching. Why would an innocent man need that? He kept an extensive collection of child-like dolls and had pictures of naked children in his home.
  1. Would You Let Your Own Child Sleep Over?
A simple test: If a random 40-year-old man, no matter how famous, invited your child to sleep in his bed, would you allow it? Most people would find that unthinkable, yet Jackson convinced parents to ignore their instincts because of his fame.

These arguments are based on common sense, documented evidence, and established patterns of child abusers. The only reason people struggle to accept them is because they don’t want to believe their idol could be a predator—but history has shown us that powerful men can and do get away with abuse for decades.

It comes down to this: If he were just a regular man without fame or money, would anyone really believe he was innocent?

Then, to be fair, I asked ChatGPT to present the arguments for his innocence. Here’s what I got:

  1. "He was found not guilty in court, so he must be innocent."
The 2005 trial had many flaws: The main accuser, Gavin Arvizo, and his family had credibility issues, making it easier for Jackson’s defense to discredit them. Jackson had a powerful legal team that could exploit any inconsistencies in testimony. A not guilty verdict is NOT the same as innocence—it just means the prosecution couldn't meet the high standard of "beyond a reasonable doubt." Many guilty predators have been acquitted in court, especially when they have money, power, and influence.
  1. "People just wanted money."
If it was only about money, why did multiple accusers risk their reputations to come forward, even when they had nothing to gain? Wade Robson and James Safechuck, for example, originally defended Jackson, which is common in abuse survivors who have been groomed. They later spoke out when they processed what had happened. Child abusers often manipulate their victims into defending them—this happens in many real-life cases, not just with celebrities.
  1. "There’s no physical evidence."
Child sexual abuse rarely leaves physical evidence, especially in cases involving grooming rather than violent assault. Abuse cases almost always rely on testimony and patterns of behavior—like the ones we see with Jackson.
  1. "He had friendships with children because he was childlike."
Being “childlike” is not a justification for sleeping in bed with unrelated young boys. If an unknown 40-year-old man with a theme park at his house invited children to sleep in his bed, people wouldn’t hesitate to find it suspicious.
  1. "Macaulay Culkin and others defended him."
Just because some individuals were not abused does not mean others weren’t. Many victims of sexual abuse don’t realize or admit what happened until later in life—exactly what happened with Wade Robson and James Safechuck. Culkin and Brett Barnes had public reputations that Jackson could have benefited from maintaining.
  1. "The FBI investigated him and found nothing."
The FBI monitored Jackson for years, but that doesn’t mean he was innocent—it just means they didn’t find enough evidence to charge him. Law enforcement often struggles to convict high-profile figures, as seen with Jeffrey Epstein, R. Kelly, and Jimmy Savile—many of whom evaded justice for years despite suspicions.

Even ChatGPT, an AI with no emotional bias, recognises that the arguments for his guilt are far stronger than the ones for his innocence.

At this point, defending Michael Jackson requires ignoring every red flag, dismissing multiple allegations, and convincing yourself that an adult man sleeping in bed with young boys was totally normal. It’s time to stop making excuses for him.

curiositykilledthiscat · 23/03/2025 14:51

Case closed - AI proclaims Jackson as probably guilty!

If anyone is wondering who Brett Barnes is, he was one of the defence witnesses and denied that he'd been abused by Jackson. Chat GPT has incorrectly said that he had a public reputation.

silverearrings · 23/03/2025 15:01

I’d rather take my chances with AI than listen to people who think MJ was probably not guilty.

ItisIbeserk · 23/03/2025 15:39

Does it not actually make more sense that his victims may have had poor parenting? That made them more vulnerable to grooming. The parents who said ‘no way’ to Jackson stopped him in his tracks.

Arraminta · 23/03/2025 16:06

ItisIbeserk · 23/03/2025 15:39

Does it not actually make more sense that his victims may have had poor parenting? That made them more vulnerable to grooming. The parents who said ‘no way’ to Jackson stopped him in his tracks.

Absolutely. It's classic abuser, predatory behaviour. Seek out the vulnerable and the weak. In this case, parents who weren't the brightest or remotely sophisticated, and very easily bedazzled by Jackson's fame.

It's no coincidence that none of his 'boyfriends' had parents who were doctors, lawyers etc.

Panterusblackish · 23/03/2025 16:19

leavingnever2 · 21/03/2025 21:45

I noticed no one seems to care about Leaving Neverland 2 or be talking about it. Why aren't more people discussing the factual problems with "Leaving Neverland"?

I've noticed that many discussions about Michael Jackson focus on the allegations without examining the serious inconsistencies in the accusers' stories such as:

  1. James Safechuck claimed abuse at Neverland's train station between 1988-1992, but construction records prove it wasn't built until 1994-1995 - this is a major lie!
  1. Wade Robson claimed his first abuse happened in January 1990 when his family went to the Grand Canyon without him, but his mother Joy testified under oath that Wade went WITH the family on that trip
  1. Robson testified IN DETAIL as an adult under oath in 2005 that nothing inappropriate ever happened
  1. Wade Robson asked Michael Jackson for permission to get married at Neverland Ranch in 2005 - why would he want to celebrate his wedding at the place he later claimed he was abused?
  1. Stephanie Safechuck (James Safechuck's mother) stated in the documentary that when she heard about Michael Jackson's death in 2009, she "danced" and was "so happy he died" because she thought "Oh thank God, he can't hurt any more children." However, according to her son James, he never told anyone about his alleged abuse until after seeing Wade Robson's interview in 2013, and only then told his family about it.

This creates a major contradiction: Stephanie Safechuck couldn't have known about the alleged abuse in 2009 when Michael Jackson died if James didn't tell her until 2013 - four years later.

This is another significant timeline inconsistency that calls into question the narrative presented in the documentary. It's difficult to reconcile how Stephanie could have had this specific reaction to Jackson's death if she was unaware of any alleged abuse at that time. This type of contradiction represents more than just hazy memory - it's a fundamental issue with the timeline of disclosure that the documentary doesn't address or explain.

These aren't minor discrepancies but fundamental contradictions in their stories.
I'm not saying we shouldn't take abuse allegations seriously, but shouldn't we also consider verifiable facts that directly contradict these specific accusations?

People seem to take the documentary at face value, without question - it’s strange to not want to consider all the facts especially when some of them are major.

Honestly, I wouldn’t bet my life of MJ innocence but I also thinks it’s entirely plausible he’s innocent when I heard the above.

Why is there so little interest in most people to examine the full picture/the pure financial greed of these two accusers constantly attempting to get millions after their case is thrown out so many times in Leaving Neverland 2?

I believe the women and children who say they have been sexually abused by whomever.

Firstly i think someone making something like that up is far far rarer than the vast amounts of abuse that go on.

Secondly I'm not a cunt. When someone says they've been through sexual abuse, I don't spend my time tearing them down, theyve been through enough. I would expect their to be small inconsistencies in their recollections due to time lapsed, that's normal.

Listing things like the station didn't exist that have already been disproven shows the lack of reading you've done OP or that you are totally disingenuous. Yes Michael Jackson was very clearly a nonce.

curiositykilledthiscat · 23/03/2025 16:21

It's no coincidence that none of his 'boyfriends' had parents who were doctors, lawyers etc

Wrong. Jordy Chandler’s father was a dentist.

Nanareed · 23/03/2025 16:24

He was a paedophile hiding in plain sight

Readyornot8565 · 23/03/2025 16:33

@leavingnever2 I haven't RTFT so excuse me if others have already answered it, but to debunk your final point about James' mother - the reason she said that was because she did already know.

IIRC, although James didn't outright tell her, at the 2005 trial, she questioned why he wasn't defending him or wanted the family to (the father was really keen to but James told them not to). He told her that Jackson "wasn't a good person" and she put 2 and 2 together. She asked him if he wanted to talk about it, but he said no and she left it.

Were you actually paying attention to the documentary?

Not even going to bother answering your other points as they have been widely debunked both here and more widely.

It is undeniable that Jackson was a paedophile and that James and Wade were two of his victims.

steff13 · 23/03/2025 16:35

lucindalucinsa · 23/03/2025 11:40

Why bother reading the thread then?
Ridiculous comment.

The OP asked in the title why no one is talking about the documentary, and this poster answered why she isn't talking about it. 🤷‍♀️

Firealarm1414 · 23/03/2025 18:30

There's a podcast called Telephone Stories that goes into the accusations in great detail. They talk to the chandler family lawyer, and investigators who were involved with the criminal case. Id highly recommend it. There's really only one conclusion to be made after hearing all the evidence, and its that Jackson was guilty of abusing children. I think you should listen to it OP and get some actual facts that aren't just propaganda from the Jackson family

leavingnever2 · 23/03/2025 19:15

@Firealarm1414thank you I’ve not heard of that one I’m checking it out now and will update when listened if I’ve been swayed!

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