To wonder how many of you employ yourself and if not why not?

[girlfriend44]

Instead of trying to get someone else to employ you, and have the worry of applying for work, interviews, and all the other things that go with working is there a reason why you don't work for yourself?

There are lots of positives to it and you don't need to rely on anyone else?
If you don't self employ why not?

I'd love to be self employed alas I don't think my skill set is quite enough to give me sufficient regular income that I could rely on.

I've never wanted to work for myself.

I like the security of a regular income, I enjoy working for a large organisation and structured career progression.

Those in my sector who do work for themselves don't earn a huge amount due to the sector we work in.

I do the occasional bit of freelance but it's enough to know it's not something I want to do permanently.

@MolkosTeenageAngst

I have ADHD and think I would find all of the forms/ paperwork and involved in being self employed difficult, things like taxes and keeping receipts and trying to find clients and advertising etc.

That's why you engage professionals to support you if it's outside your comfort zone. Either to actually do that kind of thing for you or to help you organise and set it up yourself.

With book-keeping, we've loads of clients who want us to do it all for them. That's fine no problem. But we've more clients where we've set it up for them, these days via online automated apps, and they've gone away to monitor and maintain it themselves.

A lot of it is fear of the unknown. These days with the internet, so much help and advice and information is freely and quickly available at the press of a button. Go back 40 years, when we actually had far higher numbers of self employed, it was a lot harder to find information, ironically, yet people managed.

As for "finding clients", so much these days can be done remotely via the internet that simply doesn't involve any human contact. Fair enough, a plumber is going to have to view jobs and meet customers. No way around that. But so many other jobs can be fully remote/anonymous. I'd say over half my clients are people I've never met in person - I've got clients all over the country, and a few abroad. There are even clients in my own village who I've not personally met, even though they only live less than a mile away from my office.

Lots of potential customers will be ND and would prefer to avoid/minimise personal contact with their suppliers/service providers too, it's not a one way street.

I think this thread is very sad actually at the lack of any "can do" attitude and so many posters not wanting to take risks or leave their comfort zone. Self employment could be a game changer for so many people, but somehow seems to have got a very bad image for itself when so many people have a closed mind to their opportunities.

Why though? Is she really going to be doubling her salary being self employed or something? Does it really make up for the insecurity and hassle (such as doing your own tax and NI)? Also a lot of virtual assistant stuff is through an agency so you’re not properly self employed because the agency takes a cut but you don’t have employment protection.
My sister does online admin work, virtual assistant type stuff and earns much less than she would in employment. It suits her because she is autistic and doesn’t function well in a normal workplace.
Most of the plumbers and stuff that I know use online apps for admin stuff or those who run a larger business actually employ people.

DH used to have* *his own business:

Long hours, non paying clients, tax and business rates to name a few things..

If you have retail experience, you have the transferrable skills to set up an online shop, such as ebay or Amazonmarketplace or facebook marketplace quickly and cheaply, or you can set up your own website with a platform like shopify. It's one of the simplest businesses to start. I'd actually (and do) tell people not to rent/buy a physical shop as they're all struggling these days due to high overheads. With the internet, it's never been easier to source products to sell from manufacturers/wholesalers, etc. Someone with actual retail, "in front of customers" knowledge of a particular retail sector could do very well by using their experience and knowledge of their particular sector and knowing what customers have asked for which isn't readily available so they know what there is demand for. An online shop is the sort of thing you can easily set up in your spare time alongside a proper job, pretty much risk free, and then transition over if it takes off.

Yeah I’d hate that too - having to chase people for payment or pay someone else to chase them. I don’t deal well with that sort of thing.

I used to be self employed in lots of ways it was good but also really stressful. Late payers were the bane of my existence. I’m employed and there is a joy in knowing I have sick pay , pension , holidays all accounted for and I can just fo
my job!

I think there is a certain mindset associated with wanting to be self-employed, or not. If you are airline cabin crew, or a NHS nurse or a nursery worker then you may not be able to immediately set up as self-employed doing exactly the same thing. But that doesn't mean you can't take your transferrable skills and apply them to other contexts if you really wanted to do so - or were forced into doing so.

I became self-employed because the company I previously worked for on a PAYE basis went into liquidation when I was off on maternity leave with my second baby. So although I had been employed in accounts/finance for them, I looked at my background and skills and what I was good at and started doing freelance SEO writing, and answering questions for AQA (if anyone remembers that it was a pre-smartphone service where people could text questions and get a response). Since then my business has morphed into something different.

Not everyone who is self-employed is selling products or a tradesperson. My next door neighbour used to be a pastoral care teacher in a secondary school and has retrained in CBT and counselling. Another friend is a genealogist and works with clients all over the world. A third used to work in IT for a big company and now builds and maintains websites. Yes there are "sales" in that you have to find clients and put yourself out there but you're not constantly hustling like the numpties on the Apprentice.

Also the admin side does not need to be complex, I am really just selling my time so just keep a spreadsheet with money I get in. It is definitely more complex if you are buying goods, adding value and then selling.

There is nothing wrong with preferring the security of employment and if DH didn't have a good (employed) job I would probably have gone back to employment at some point. But this idea that being self-employed is either constant hustling for sales or MLM is just very odd.

I think this thread is very sad actually at the lack of any "can do" attitude and so many posters not wanting to take risks or leave their comfort zone.

Those who work for an employer can still have a 'can do' attitude, take risks and leave their comfort zone. 🤷🏼‍♀️

I did it for a while, but I missed the security of employment.

Some of us are more risk averse than others, and that is OK.

Also business rates? Why would you be paying business rates unless you are renting a specific property to be self-employed from? Most people don't - they just work at home, as a lot of employed people do!

And no, you don't need to tell your insurer or mortgage company, they are only interested if your work at home means you have loads of very valuable stock in your spare room or have clients coming and going from home.

I used to do the job I do now freelance, IR35 made it less attractive v the risk.

Been with my employer 3 years, have full employment rights, so they can’t just sack me off when ever they feel like it, 3 month notice if they do want to, plus redundancy pay. I get 29 days paid leave, 6 weeks full sick pay and healthy employer pension contributions. All in, even though I was billing hundreds of pounds a day freelance I am not that worse off being employed.

Freelance contracts are typically only 6 months and it’s always a bit nerve wracking if you will be renewed, week notice if the customer doesn’t want you any more, as a freelancer you still have to go through interviews, and have the annoyance of doing your accounts and employing an accountant.

It can be very lucrative for people with several skills. Not quite so much for those just doing basic admin tasks. But pay is much better for those who can do workload scheduling, sourcing supplies, credit control, accounting, etc.

And yes for flexibility, especially for parents with school aged children.

One of my clients is the virtual PA for a private audiologist. She does everything - she answers the phone, arranges appointments, deals with queries/problems, orders in the hearing aids and consumables, takes payment, books the treatment rooms, etc. The audiologist works two half day sessions per week, so my client just has to be there at the same time to do the meet and greet receptionist duties. The audiologist does nothing at all other than the consultation with the patient. The PA does the payroll, book-keeping, etc. But it's a 30 hour week job, only 6 of those having to actually be at the treatment room, the rest is completely flexible - if she's free, she'll answer the phone (diverted) if not, it goes to voicemail and she calls the patient back. Works brilliantly for both PA and audiologist. Very good money as there's a lot of money in private audiology, but she's got a full suite of office/management skills, not just admin!

Tradesmen work the same way (some of them anyway)

Having to engage professionals and download apps etc even if they were going to do it for me would be part of the issue though, I would struggle with that kind of responsibility as I am a chronic procrastinator. Without a boss giving me deadlines I know I would not get around to downloading the app, contacting the accountant, going on the website to find clients, it would always be ‘I’ll do it tomorrow.’ I have friends who are self employed and they have to be so disciplined, I don’t have that kind of self discipline. I can’t be late for work or miss a deadline or fail to reply to emails because I’ll get in trouble with my boss, if I was self employed nobody would be there to hold me accountable and so I wouldn’t do it. It’s not about being close minded, not having a ‘can do’ attitude or being risk averse, it’s about recognising the impact my disability has on areas like productivity, motivation, self-discipline etc and recognising that I need the support network and structure being employed within an organisation offers.

I would really hate it so I don’t do that. Odd question.

If I was starting again being self-employed, I would focus on products rather than services. Before Covid when things were okay, I did used to contract out quite a lot of work to other people, and there were a couple of people who could substitute for me, but mostly I got people to do specific bits so that I could go for larger contracts. There wasn’t really much in the way of profit margins in subcontracting work out, as I had to be careful around pricing to win contracts, but it did allow me to go for bigger contracts and charge a higher day rate myself. I don’t think I really understood that it would be much more difficult to scale up this way, and that because I mostly had to be there to earn money, it would take a lot of my time.

At times I was able to earn a lot, but that came at the price of working very early in the morning, sometimes late into the night, and weekends. Then there were the periods where finding work was more difficult, in my line of business that seem to be no seasonal pattern to it either that I could get used to.

It did let me work at a senior strategic level and have the flexibility to be around for DD, I think that’s why a lot of women do it, but as a PP pointed out, a lot of us fall into it and then muddle along with no real business advice or strategy, I think if I’ve had more support right at the beginning, I would’ve done things very differently.

Because I earn loads being employed. My employers gives me shares in their company, uplifts my pension, I get a huge bonus and 40 days annual leave a year.
Seems good enough to me!

It's hard because the turnover needed to generate a similar net income (taking into account benefits like pension and paid leave) is much higher than the gross salary on your payslip. It's a general misconception that if you could just earn the same as you did per annum you'd have more freedom and the same or more money in your pocket. There's no job security. Very little protection overall (I had a client overseas who didn't abide by the terms of the contract - nightmare to do anything about that and I've got a business insurance covering that specific territory). Also, as someone else pointed out, you're entirely alone with accounting, marketing, contracting/legal, and you also end up never actually taking time off. It very easily turns into a 24/7 job and is stressful when it's quiet (panic sets in: is my client pipeline solid enough?) and stressful when it's busy because, again, you're on your own managing the entire process (sales and delivery).
Self-employed is the worst until you can scale up and turn it into a business with a team you can manage and delegate to.

I grew up in a self employed house (parents are small farmers) and to be honest it put me off - the job was everything - long long hoirs, uncertainty, money worries, everyone in the family dragged in to help.

I like my job - it's secure, well paid, good benefits - generous sick pay, flexible working, good pension, decent holiday allowance, private health care, subsidised canteen- a defined career path, decent colleagues. I don't feel the need to give that up to be my own boss. The best part is other people worry about the accounts, tax, admin, planning, regulations etc.. and I can just crack on and do the stuff I am qualified to do and like doing.

Reasons why not:

I enjoy the job I do.
i enjoy working with a range of colleagues.
I couldn’t do the same job as i do now, if i was self employed.
I have job security and income stability.
i don’t want the hassle of starting afresh.
i don’t want the hassle of employing other people.
i don’t want the hassle of finding my own clients.
i don’t want to spend money in having somewhere suitable to work from
i don’t want to be doing the admin and bookkeeping side, which I’m not overly interested in.

Do I enjoy applications and interviews? No! However I’ve been at my same workplace for many years now so it hasn’t really been an issue for ages.
Yes, my workplace has its issues at times, but I can preempt then and I’ve been there, and in the same line of work, for years so mostly I let it wash over me.

Also business rates? Why would you be paying business rates unless you are renting a specific property to be self-employed from?
DH business employed 15 people in the end... this could hardly be done from the 2 bed semi we were living in at the time.

Plus all the tools machinery and equipment. Not all self employed people can operate a business from their garage or spare bedroom. It very much depends on the industry.

Exactly. It’s quite insulting actually. There are millions of employed people who are incredibly ambitious, help grow the businesses they work for and take risks every single day. If everyone had the attitude that they needed to be their own boss (still not sure why it’s so good) then these small businesses would be fucked wouldn’t they because they’d not have anyone to work for them?

The people I hear shouting the loudest about self employment being the best tend to be the types who clash with others in the workplace and aren’t particularly employable. All the ones that I know who actually run a successful business never tell others how they should organise their lives.

Also the flexibility of being self employed is a bit of an illusion because if you are building your business you basically have to take on as much as you can at the outset and you probably end up working very long hours. It might pay off in the end but equally it might not.

Pension, enhanced maternity, sick pay, equipment provided, stability, this particular job is very secure.

I might run a project myself as the last part of my working lif, once pension is safe and mortgage paid off but it would pay too little and have no security for this life phase. It would be self defeating to do that now.

I'm not self employed for the same reason I never want to climb mount Everest. It's hard and I don't want to do it.

When I was made redundant about 12 years ago a few people were like 'Oooh, start your own business, be your own boss!' and I got quite pissed off about it was like 'No, I don't want to'. It's works great for a lot of people but it's annoying when people act like everyone should want to be doing it.

a) I don't have skills that lend themselves to well paid self-employment. The only ideas I could think of would be low earning (freelance editing in my case was the obvious one) and wouldn't have covered childcare costs which I'd still need at that point and even after that wouldn't bring in a large or predictable income
b) I couldn't just 'come up with a business idea'; ones that work tend to start with proactively seeing a gap to fill that you are familiar with from your own life experience, if you don't have that you can't generally just go 'I will sit and think until I've come up with a business that will be viable'
c) I hate unpredictability, uncertainty and debt - things there's a lot of in self-employment generally
d) I couldn't bear to have to fire/discipline people
e) It takes pretty much 24/7 working to establish a profitable business, certainly one that makes enough to have nice lifestyle and a pension from. and I actually want to not think about my job all the time, so yes, I do want to work for someone else for the rest of my life