To think visiting the US is justifiable in these circumstances?

[AnnaQuayInTheUk]

Lots of my friends are, like me, very anti Trump and all he stands for. Some of us were having a discussion the other evening about boycotting US products and not visiting the US whilst Trump is in power.

We are planning a visit to the US later this year. It's not yet booked and lots of my friends were trying to persuade me not to go.

However, they are all aware that the reason we are going is to see my Father in Law. He is 93 and, whilst currently in good health, that might not be the case for much longer. We haven't seen him for 3 years. He is almost totally deaf so DH can't have conversations with him over the phone. He doesn't use Facetime or any video calling services so we can't actually see him.

DH is an only child and really wants to see his dad. One of my good friends told me that she thought that, even given the circumstances, we should stand on our principles and not go. Another friend was more sympathetic initially but then said she thought it was hypocritical to criticise Trump and then visit America.

AIBU to think that it's justifiable to go to the USA given the reason?

Your friends are fucking stupid and you need better ones.

It’s fine. Prioritise family.

I had the same dilemma as I want to see my great aunt who is early 90s and in reasingly frail. I don’t know if she has another 4 years in her so I intend to see her.

Tbh if your SM is trackable back to you in real life you would be too late at this stage as your social grouping and political niche has already been established by the SM org and that data will most likely have been flogged.

It's a holiday. Just go and have fun.

Which British Americans have they been detaining? If it was the vegan lady it’s because she didn’t have the right visa

It hasn't "come to this", depending on what "this" is perceived to mean

Yes the media will focus on a few folk who've made mistakes and make a three ring circus out of it - with 24/7 news they've got to find something to fill the bulletins - but do people really imagine the immigration staff are going to peruse everyone's phone at the border even if they had time?

A little less catastrophising and maybe a little more balance is often a good thing

I’d be more worried about the shitshow in England right now. I’d be using any excuse to get out of the country. I live in the US, but British born, and I don’t know what garbage the tabloids are feeding you about the US, but it’s a huge country with plenty of blue states to visit if that’s what you’re looking for!

The only reason the US wanted passenger data before flights took off is so that they can run the passanger data through their systems so I would suspect that random political searches are not so random. Otherwise the staff (who need to have a minimum level of conservative and/or Ahole personality) would be replaced after every election.

I wasn't aware (apart from in Miami ) that having an Ahole personality was considered a plus for the ICE, @AnSolas, but then except in that particular hellhole I've always found them unfailingly pleasant ... unless maybe they're reflecting the respectful way I treat them?

And BTW the ESTA screening involves checking visa refusals or violations, terrorist databases, lists of lost passports, available public health records and some social media content if there are already red flags, so checking absolutely everyone's phones really doesn't come into it (Source: one of the directors who works in this and is known to me personally)

I'd be booking my flights and ditching the "friends".

The service would be very foolish not to employ people who had the ability to go some% Ahole because they deal with the stressed public and the criminal public. And the better ones will deal with public in a professional way even if the public is not respectful. Problems arise when the culture allows staff to forget the professional element.

And as you point out the system is preclearance so the "phone check" at the airport would not likely be a random selection thing.

And its my understanding that for US citizens warrentless searches of tech are a breach of their 4th amendment rights with no obligation to provide passwords to allow access either but not sure if this extends to non-citizens if they power down their phone going through the airport

You're quite right, @AnSolas, but then according to those who understand these issues "stops" on passengers aren't often a standard thing unless it's for something very minor - and those are unlikely to prevent them being admitted

Apparently most of it's done on intelligence received anyway, which among other things would explain why those pulled aside from a queue are often so similar in appearance (6ft white guy, glasses, mid 40s or whatever)

Edited to add it's a slight tangent, but I once asked an associated customs guy why they have such a high hit rate on folk pulled aside in the anything to declare channel, and was told that even they don't know but have come to believe it's some sort of instinct ... beats the hell out of me!!

Its a mix of random too as this helps eliminate staff bias. (And also ensures that the staff are actively checking and been seen to be checking randomly)

I would be too nervous to visit the US for a holiday. Any day now Trump may pass an executive order to summarily imprison any British women under 5'4'' (only sort of joking). But seriously, you really should go to see your FIL given the circumstances.

If you want to go, go. I would seriously be worried about your friends' thinking.

Puzzledandpissedoff
Edited to add it's a slight tangent, but I once asked an associated customs guy why they have such a high hit rate on folk pulled aside in the anything to declare channel, and was told that even they don't know but have come to believe it's some sort of instinct ... beats the hell out of me!!

It will be an ability to read people in what is normal and not normal in an airport. They will be good at reading nonverbal indications that the persons actions are a little off.

Correct again, AnSolas, and it's incredible how good they are at it

That said, my ex was one of the few who often got pulled but wasn't carrying anything - probably because with having aspergers airports wound him up something rotten and he always looked "off" when going through them

Depends what you mean by ‘we’. I can guarantee Canadians certainly won’t. This is big, personal and very insulting/worrying.

Travelling to the US for family is understandable and fine.

Travelling to support the US economy and pay money into their country right now is abhorrent to a lot of people.

We are under economic attack and the UK is still our head of state and staunchest ally.

Support to change travel plans right now when there are literally millions of other places in the world to visit (including Canada which offers a lot of what the US does and so much more) is the right thing to do to support an ally.

If the US set tariffs on the UK after agreeing only a few years ago on a treaty (Trump supported and signed himself) for free trade I wouldn’t travel to the US and would support the UK.

So no we won’t forget and would appreciate support from our allies, commonwealth country and head of state country.