Page 14 | To be really cross about the proposed cuts?

9fthighfence · 26/03/2025 06:04

The ‘free utilities’ thing is such a dumb argument too. I live at home with my family and pay for utilities, but if my employer expected me to run a second home and work from that home a few days a week as part of my job, damn right if expect them to pay for the utilities! It’s an extra cost that I incur when travelling for work. Why is this so hard for people to get their heads around? I could be in the family home and not incurring any more utilities costs than anyone else, but I’m not in the family home due to work so work should pay. It’s not hard!

LoremIpsumCici · 27/03/2025 10:58

9fthighfence · 26/03/2025 06:04

The ‘free utilities’ thing is such a dumb argument too. I live at home with my family and pay for utilities, but if my employer expected me to run a second home and work from that home a few days a week as part of my job, damn right if expect them to pay for the utilities! It’s an extra cost that I incur when travelling for work. Why is this so hard for people to get their heads around? I could be in the family home and not incurring any more utilities costs than anyone else, but I’m not in the family home due to work so work should pay. It’s not hard!

I am sure you feel you would be entitled to a second London home with all mortgage/rent and running costs paid for by the taxpayer but the country can’t afford it. Perhaps it’s time to look at the government buying a London hotel and MPs just have a hotel room for the times they are in London.

JoyousOpalTurtle · 27/03/2025 12:01

LoremIpsumCici · 25/03/2025 18:21

GPs can’t diagnose the actual MH disorders though. They can only diagnose psychiatric symptoms- things like anxiety or depression or trauma and if the symptoms of depression, anxiety, trauma appear to be more than mild, they then have to refer you to MH for assessment.
They can’t diagnose Major Depressive Disorder, Psychotic Depression, or PTSD, or Schizophrenia, or OCD, etc. They have to refer for a psychiatric assessment by a consultant.

So, the “over diagnosis” of actual MH disorders is not a thing. And the fact you feel the GP was incorrect in identifying your bereavement as depression means that your symptoms were mild enough to not meet the threshold for referral to MH.

People really need to stop thinking they know about MH Disorders because they’ve experienced one mild symptom of one disorder.

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GPs absolutely do diagnose depression and anxiety disorders, which can then be used towards claiming inability to work or PIP. I assure you overdiagnosis is a thing. GPs diagnose OCD. If they refer onwards for further assessment and treatment it's typically to a Talking Therapies primary care service, who can't diagnose.

I was offered a referral to mental health services and declined, because I didn't need it.

GPs don't and can't force patients to attend mental health services unless they're extremely unwell (acutely psychotic for example) and then they seek guidance and support around sectioning.

People really need to stop thinking they know about mental health disorders when the information they've come across is inaccurate.

BlueandWhitePorcelain · 27/03/2025 12:35

If they refer onwards for further assessment and treatment it's typically to a Talking Therapies primary care service, who can't diagnose.

No, here it would be the CMHT - unless, they recognise CBT isn’t going to cut it for the things we talk about. DH, DD and I have found typically when people (MH professionals or social workers) ask us about our lives, they are in tears. The only people, who don’t cry are psychiatrists.

Jellycatspyjamas · 27/03/2025 13:01

DH, DD and I have found typically when people (MH professionals or social workers) ask us about our lives, they are in tears.

Theres something badly wrong there, professionals need a degree of resilience in their work - even hearing the most awful of situations.

PalmTreeAngel · 28/03/2025 07:29

BlueandWhitePorcelain · 27/03/2025 12:35

If they refer onwards for further assessment and treatment it's typically to a Talking Therapies primary care service, who can't diagnose.

No, here it would be the CMHT - unless, they recognise CBT isn’t going to cut it for the things we talk about. DH, DD and I have found typically when people (MH professionals or social workers) ask us about our lives, they are in tears. The only people, who don’t cry are psychiatrists.

Not always - sometimes it is referred to IAPT talking therapies who can then refer onwards to CMHT depending on severity or complexity.

Sometimes GPs do refer straight to CMHT, yes

Pussycat22 · 28/03/2025 08:02

Holidayfix · 18/03/2025 22:45

I'm conflicted. I absolutely support a good benefits safety net, for those who need it. I also know many people "signed off" without much diagnosis. Myself included. When I was suffering stress at work, coypled with sknebissies in my personal life, GP signed me off without even speaking to me, I just asked the receptionist if it might be possible to have a couple of weeks and that was renewed for 3 months.

I was in a bad way, but no doctor investigated that.

I don't know if I could have carried that on through a benefits claim, but it surprised me how easy it was to get 3 months off work. Having never had any kind of medical certificate in the previous 30 years of work, I always thought a doctor's note "proved" you were ill.

Either way, we can't sustain a situation where so many people are long term sick/disabled with MH issues and there's a part of me that "knows", from my own experience at least , that really the best thing that can happen is being forced to take some responsibility for your own recovery.

I think that's the case in an awful lot of what afflicts us in the modern world. We've reached an place where we expect the NHS to fix us when really a lot of lot has to start with us. Obviously that won't apply to everyone, but why cant we say that to those it does.

I'd like to see campaigns about taking personal responsibility for our health, but I know it would be considered outrageous.

Brilliantly put.👍

Kendodd · 28/03/2025 21:28

With regard anxiety. I'm under the impression (very will to be proven wrong) that the only thing that really works, or works best, it to actually face your fears and be desensitised to them (?)
Giving people with anxiety money so they can hide away from the world sounds to me like the worse thing we could possibly do for them.

WeylandYutani · 28/03/2025 21:35

Kendodd · 28/03/2025 21:28

With regard anxiety. I'm under the impression (very will to be proven wrong) that the only thing that really works, or works best, it to actually face your fears and be desensitised to them (?)
Giving people with anxiety money so they can hide away from the world sounds to me like the worse thing we could possibly do for them.

That only applies if you know what you are anxious about.

PalmTreeAngel · 29/03/2025 05:41

”Everything is easier if you go on benefits,” says stay-at-home mother-of-one Chelsea Robinson, 28, who is out with her one-year-old son Reggie and is not on welfare herself.
“You get everything given to you. You get the same amount as you would working in a shop, if not more, because you get your house paid for and everything, don’t you, on benefits.”

The area where two-thirds of residents are out of work

Kendodd · 29/03/2025 06:07

WeylandYutani · 28/03/2025 21:35

That only applies if you know what you are anxious about.

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So if you are anxious about going to work, surely the answer is to go to work (?)

Middlechild3 · 29/03/2025 06:43

Byjimminy · 18/03/2025 20:19

And feel really effing sorry for those with genuine anxiety and depression - it is disabling!

Already seeing threads in MH with people despairing in anticipation of cuts. As if mental health services haven't already been decimated beyond recognition already. GP appointments as rare as hen's teeth, CAMHS and access to decent therapy is next to non-existent, the conservatiives slashed all the support workers and sure start centres and we've had the worst pandemic in decades (centuries?) - long covid is thing too! And now people are just self diagnosing/making up mental health issues? How the hell anyone believes anyone manages to claim PIP without a proper diagnosis is insanity itself.

I completely agree with this article: https://www.independent.co.uk/voices/wes-streeting-overdiagnosis-mental-health-adhd-b2716618.html

I know there will be umpteen threads on this already, but maybe some others like me just want to let stuff out in frustration and have a fresh place to say it. To think this is a labour government making these decisions BEFORE putting the services in place to actually help and treat people is beyond comprehension.

There's barely a post on mumsnet which doesn't reference ADHD, anxiety, depression either of the author or about their partner in connection to whatever problem is posted. Often 'suspected abc, awaiting my diagnosis'. People love a label for what are largely everyday emotions. Everyone has down days, situations that make them nervous etc. this isn't mental illness.

Zanatdy · 29/03/2025 06:48

We have a lot of people in my team with depression and anxiety. Some pretty serious. My colleague had to go to a hotel once and help a colleagues husband as his wife (our colleague) was about to be sectioned. Yes she had some time off during the years, but working was good for her. My mum has had depression for years, and I don’t understand why sitting at home for 30yrs, like she has since she quit working at 41, is better than getting out of the house every day. In my opinion it’s done her more harm than good. No she’s not making up the condition, but could she have worked? Yes.

The country can’t afford the escalating mental health bill, and there’s no way that everyone claiming out of work sick benefits is being 100% truthful. Many people with depression and anxiety manage to go to work every day.

Wishfulthinkingonmypart · 29/03/2025 06:59

Wildflowers99 · 18/03/2025 21:38

I feel like people have gone to great pains to make out mental health is no different to physical health, when it simply isn’t true.

Let’s say I go to the GP complaining of anxiety symptoms. I’d probably be diagnosed with anxiety. However why am I anxious? Is it the adverse experiences I had as a child? Is it my stressful job? Maybe I’m not anxious at all - maybe it’s OCD? The human brain is so complex, it’s not like a computer where you can source the bug and fix it. I’m not even sure symptoms do fit into diagnostic boxes at all. It seems like a lot of guess work.

As for the treatment… well there are hundreds of parents on this website alone with anxious/autistic/adhd teens who won’t leave the house and se unlikely to work in the near future. Often the parent is saying ‘this wouldn’t be happening if they’d had the right support’ but what does that mean? Often it means hundreds of thousands of pounds worth of therapy which frankly may or may not have worked. It’s not surprising the NHS can’t keep up when all of a sudden we have hundreds of thousands, if not millions, of people wanting diagnosis/therapy/meds for something which until 7 or 8 years ago was reasonably rare. MH treatment isn’t the silver bullet it’s made out to be on here, it’s very expensive and often ineffective beyond letting the person vent and feel a bit better for a few hours.

I don’t work in benefits but I meet benefit claimants every day and listen to them describing their circumstances. I would say benefits have been a huge mistake for 80% of them - the benefits have frankly enabled them to make whatever the qualifying problem was much worse. Anxious people who have been paid to stay at home for 5 years are now positively terrified of the outside world. Men who are a bit feckless and found it hard to hold down a job, have used their UC to spend years smoking weed and addling their brains to the point they’re actually unemployable now. These people exist in the hundreds in my town alone. If they had had to work out of necessity back when their issues were smaller, rather than being allowed to drop out of society at the expense of the taxpayer, I reckon they’d be in a much better place.

This entirely.

We’re assuming that people on benefits desperately want to get back into work, and that’s absolutely true for some.

But there’s plenty more who are either actively gaming the system, or just don’t try, because they don’t have to. I’ve spoken to plenty of those people in my job as well.

Julen7 · 29/03/2025 08:33

Middlechild3 · 29/03/2025 06:43

There's barely a post on mumsnet which doesn't reference ADHD, anxiety, depression either of the author or about their partner in connection to whatever problem is posted. Often 'suspected abc, awaiting my diagnosis'. People love a label for what are largely everyday emotions. Everyone has down days, situations that make them nervous etc. this isn't mental illness.

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Exactly this. My children also say the kids in their classes with these conditions, or who claim to have them, is starting to outnumber those who don’t. it is a real uphill struggle constantly explaining to them that we are not supposed to feel happy and calm and regulated the whole time, that moods fluctuate and negative emotions serve an important purpose in life.

LadyKenya · 29/03/2025 08:50

My mum has had depression for years, and I don’t understand why sitting at home for 30yrs, like she has since she quit working at 41, is better than getting out of the house every day. In my opinion it’s done her more harm than good. No she’s not making up the condition, but could she have worked? Yes.

Maybe she could have continued to work, or maybe she could not, regardless of what you believed. Did you ever discuss any of this with her?

Original poster

Byjimminy · 29/03/2025 09:58

Julen7 · 29/03/2025 08:33

Exactly this. My children also say the kids in their classes with these conditions, or who claim to have them, is starting to outnumber those who don’t. it is a real uphill struggle constantly explaining to them that we are not supposed to feel happy and calm and regulated the whole time, that moods fluctuate and negative emotions serve an important purpose in life.

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Which is why a proper diagnosis is so important. Due to diagnoses not being available on the NHS without a direct waiting list, many services and workplaces operate on a "suspected" basis, so that support can be put in place at an early stage, which is what's needed for those who are diagnosed.

It's like a surreal ever decreasing circle - the services just aren't there at a GP level, some might be lucky to have a "screening" test, which also doesn't really help clarify anything, and many are left waiting indefinitely who either do or don't have an actual condition. This current situation is damaging those in both camps and is both over and under diagnosing simultaneously, which is creating havoc! Removing pip without increasing proper assessments is not the answer for those with genuine issues, which is who we should be focussed on.

OP posts:

Original poster

Byjimminy · 29/03/2025 09:58

*dire not direct

OP posts:

WeylandYutani · 29/03/2025 11:05

Kendodd · 29/03/2025 06:07

So if you are anxious about going to work, surely the answer is to go to work (?)

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That is not how you treat anxiety if there is an anxiety about something specific.

Thelnebriati · 29/03/2025 11:30

If you're anxious about going to work then its possible you are anxious about;

Losing your job and not being able to pay your bills.
Not being able to cope with an unreasonable workload.
Anxiety about talking to your supervisor or manager about the conditions at work because you might lose your job.
Your horrible colleague.

Life is becoming more uncertain and more stressful so if we want people to be less anxious we have to build a society that has more stability.

EasternStandard · 29/03/2025 11:59

PalmTreeAngel · 29/03/2025 05:41

”Everything is easier if you go on benefits,” says stay-at-home mother-of-one Chelsea Robinson, 28, who is out with her one-year-old son Reggie and is not on welfare herself.
“You get everything given to you. You get the same amount as you would working in a shop, if not more, because you get your house paid for and everything, don’t you, on benefits.”

The area where two-thirds of residents are out of work

Edited

Just on this, with an area at that rate if many see cuts then are the jobs there for them? And if they are not what happens

PalmTreeAngel · 29/03/2025 15:48

EasternStandard · 29/03/2025 11:59

Just on this, with an area at that rate if many see cuts then are the jobs there for them? And if they are not what happens

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It’s true, but could some of them not choose to relocate to an area where there are jobs like the rest of us do? Appreciate it’s not viable for all, but vast majority of them could I’m sure. Be prepared to travel. I commute 1.5-2hours for work each way.

bestcatlife · 29/03/2025 16:04

Travelling is expensive. Moving is expensive. Landlords don't let to people on low incomes @PalmTreeAngel

bestcatlife · 29/03/2025 16:06

I'm really not surprised people are anxious about work, I've been bullied in most jobs and in my latest job I was assaulted by my boss which i should have actually been compensated for, had I been brave enough to report, which I didn't. It's subsequently ruined my MH and ability to form relationships with people

PalmTreeAngel · 29/03/2025 16:11

bestcatlife · 29/03/2025 16:06

I'm really not surprised people are anxious about work, I've been bullied in most jobs and in my latest job I was assaulted by my boss which i should have actually been compensated for, had I been brave enough to report, which I didn't. It's subsequently ruined my MH and ability to form relationships with people

That’s really sad, I’m sorry to hear this.