Benefit cuts proposal

[Charliechoosecarefully]

I just wanted it to have a specific thread:-

Kendall says government to consult on merging JSA and ESA benefits.

Kendall says WCA being scrapped, with Pip assessment process being used instead - will be scrapped in 2028.

Kendall says 'right to try' will let people on sickness benefits try work without immediately having benefits cut.

Kendall says UC payments being rebalanced, with standard rate going up, and some health top-ups frozen or cut.

Kendall says reassessments for people on universal credit with health top-ups to be beefed up

Kendall says universal credit claimants with most severe disabilities will not face reassessment

Kendall confirms Pip eligibility rules to be tightened, and assessment process to be reviewed - 4 pointed needed in one descriptor.

Kendall says under-22s could be prevented from claiming health top-up for universal credit

Sourced from the guardian.

And yet, the current proposition is just that - an easy solution (ie no solution at all). I think it’s clear we’re going to have to agree to disagree. I hope you never have cause to regret advocating for ‘reality’ and against ‘kindness’. Our political masters share your thinking, so we’ll just have to see where this takes us.

It isn't kind to bury your head in the sand and ignore financial reality. When it goes wrong (which it inevitably will if we keep taking such an unaffordable approach ) then the disabled and vulnerable will pay a terrible price. We can't risk that! We need to get on a sustainable financial footing that protects the most vulnerable but isn't a soft touch for those looking to exploit the system for personal gain. We need to be honest with people about the support they can expect. It's all very well promising people everything they want but if we can't fund it then it's all lies.

We can’t raise more tax?

How about moving to a cashless society & taking in the rightful levels of taxation from all the dodgy cash in hand Chinese chippies & self employed Botox nurses out there?

The Rich could also be taxed more but of course we hear the oft trotted ‘but they will leave’ etc which is why we need more global agreements on tax rates, such as the minimum Corp tax rate 130 countries agreed on, which is a start but we need a lot more of it.

Just a reminder that during the ‘chaotic’ 1970s, under a left wing Labour government, we still had better economic growth than we do now.

This is what 45 years of neoliberal economics gets you. A real division between rich and poor & those going short fighting over scraps whilst those at the top table laugh at us all.

Don’t believe moving the age young people transition to PIP is for the benefit of disabled young people. It is about saving money. More Rising 16s transitioning to PIP see their award increased than decreased/stop.

That's not true. You can have the same need for speech therapy as a disabled child but not meet the threshold for DLA who can score points in other categories that don't necessarily require any additional funding. It's a big old mess!

Tutoring is a bad comparison for your child but there are a lot of school refusers in this country that don't qualify for additional benefits. I'm not saying even this is completely comparable but my point is that it isn't as simple as to say that disabled children that qualify for DLA mean much great costs for families.

You can't tell the difference between a child who requires therapy in order to be able to walk and talk, and a child who struggles to achieve well academically? No child "needs" tutoring, especially not with the huge amount of available resources online.

That's absolutely not what I wrote. I said that my son that needed intensive speech therapy had the same and greater needs in this area than many disabled children that were also seeking speech therapy.

My point about tutoring was that this is part of the 'luck' factor that determines how expensive it can be to raise any child. Most children absolutely can pass enough subjects without tutoring but there are some children that do need tutoring to pass fundamental subjects like maths and English. If you don't have these qualifications then it's a huge barrier to accessing lots of careers and apprenticeships. It isn't about achieving 'well' academically but about not being ruled out of the majority of careers because you lack very basic qualifications. You can scoff all you like but if I described the same scenario but mentioned that the child had a disability then I imagine you would be keen to make sure that the child had additional help to pass the exams if it was a realistic prospect for them.

No child "needs" tutoring

There are exceptions to this. I have 2 DSs with EOTAS/EOTIS via their EHCPs for whom it has been judged it is inappropriate for provision to be made in a school. They have tuition as part of their packages.

I have been recieving pip since 2018 for lupus and heart failure and contributions based ESA since 2020. I worked until my body gave up I would just reduce my hours but work were horrendous. I have had 2 spine operations since then and I would love to work again but employers need to be more accommodating to long term chronic conditions. My daughter has severe anxiety and depression and she doesn't claim anything other than carers allowance for me because she feels she won't be believed as having a mental illness

DLA isn't points based like PIP is.

It's true that a child with a speech delay but no other care needs isn't going to get DLA but a child with a disability that includes a speech delay amongst other things likely will but then I'd also say that it is more likely that additional costs will come with that.

Sorry, of course you're right. Was writing post quickly and was writing about PIP then realised that was wrong and didn't change the rest of the post.

Potentially costs might arise from the other elements of disability but equally it might not. No checks are really done on this.

Exactly why not get the money back from the billions wasted during COVID when their friends and donors were given massive contracts. 13.6 billion of PPE was written off last year

It is more likely that they will though which is a reason why DLA exists.

It also isn't just about the actual additional costs of things related to the child such as private therapy, it is the actual household as a whole.

I had to quit my job which obviously affected our finances too.

Read my original comment re investing in people - I was responding to a poster who asked how we could pay to fix all those services that are currently broken, which is a huge contributing factor to the number of people who can’t work due to sickness and/or disability. At no point have I suggested we just keep paying incapacity benefits to an ever increasing number of people. What I have said is, that if you are serious about supporting people back into work, you are going to need to invest. The fact is, the reason why in-work and disability benefits have spiralled is because they are a relatively cheap and easy sticking plaster (relative being the operative word) if you want a society where it’s most vulnerable members are to be supported, but a smaller and smaller state, providing an ever decreasing number of services. What we’re moving towards now is a society that is now happy to rip off the plaster, without replacing it with anything meaningful, irrespective of the human cost.

"no appetite"?

78% of people support a wealth tax
What are you on about

https://taxjustice.uk/blog/wealth-taxes-will-cause-the-rich-to-flee-12-wealth-tax-myths-debunked/

"Don’t believe moving the age young people transition to PIP is for the benefit of disabled young people. It is about saving money. More Rising 16s transitioning to PIP see their award increased than decreased/stop."

The green paper states doing this will save money.
There are a lot of young people who get higher awards and/or more easily get them for PIP than DLA. This is at the more severe end as well.

Well said.

@Sheeparelooseagain I know. That is what I said. I was just saying while some think it is a good thing, it isn’t for the young person’s benefit.

Wealth taxes are hugely problematic but of course they will be popular in the same way that adding VAT to schools fees is popular. It doesn't impact most people. There are loads of websites that argue all of the counter points to what you have posted but here is one that runs through the main points

https://taxfoundation.org/research/all/eu/wealth-tax-impact/

When I said that there was no appetite for increased taxation, I meant that majority of the population are against paying more tax. They do not support tax rises to fund welfare payments unless it doesn't impact them. You can pin your hopes on a wealth tax but I certainly wouldn't and would want to be more honest with people that realistically if we want to raise enough tax to keep the welfare state we have (not even to improve it) then most people will need to pay more.

I know lots at special school that went from middle care and low mobility to enhanced in both.

I think over the years we’ve lost sight of the fact that these benefits were designed for those with significant disability, and the eligibility criteria have been watered down to accommodate conditions that were never meant to be assessed and supported as disability...

Unfortunately, the opposite is what has happened over the years. The 1st iteration of PIP had stricter criteria than the adult DLA. Same rhetoric “the most severely disabled will be protected”, then when PIP wasn’t saving as much money as the Gov projected, they periodically changed the PIP criteria to make them even more strict and issued DWP policy handbooks on how to interpret the criteria in the most harsh way possible - some of this were litigated against and overturned by the high court.

The fact PIP criteria got stricter and stricter is why most who claim it are so severely disabled that they cannot work, even though originally it was meant to be a benefit to support the moderately disabled who can and are in work with the extra costs of living with disability(ies).

That’s why we see the confusion even with Kendall and Starmer who keep thinking PIP is linked to work.

A voucher system would cost at least a £bn to run and administer. You would get fewer taxi rides, mobility scooters and physio appts for your money than you would as a cash benefit.

If vouchers saved money then we would have housing and food vouchers for UC claimants.

You are comparing extremes and interpreting my post in a completely incorrect way.

My point about highly gifted children is that they can be more expensive than an average child if you want to support them to reach their potential. I never said or implied that this would cost the same as a severely disabled child. That is ludicrous.

I think most people can appreciate that a severely disabled child will have high additional costs and that the state should step in to assist with this. This isn't where the controversy lies. It is with the very many people (adults and children) that exist in the grey area. Not without struggles and difficulties but also not in need of the high levels of support a severely disabled child is in need of. This is where it gets blurry. Not your kind of scenario

Do you mean asylum seekers? People who were at risk of death in their home country who have escaped and are sheltering here in order to not be killed? They aren't illegal, they are going through a legal process of assessing and verifying their claim, during which time they get a really tiny amount of support so that they don't actually starve to death while we work out if their life is worth saving.

Economic migrants who have come into the country undocumented in order to seek work, but who aren't fleeing persecution and death, are not asylum seekers and get no benefits.

@Sheeparelooseagain that will be because 56% of rising 16s who transfer from DLA to PIP receive enhanced of both components when only 8% of them receive HRC/HRM DLA.