My 14yr old is saying she is trans

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This turned into a brain dump.
TL:DR my 14 year old daughter says she trans. How can I deal with this nonsense?

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At her school it's fashionable to fall under the LGBT+ flag. She has always been openly gay/bi/pan (depending on the day) but in the last year or so, other people have convinced her she is trans.

The reason? She has very short hair (because she hates brushing it), wears tshirts and cargos (because they are comfy and she has zero interest in clothes), is tall (genetics) calls herself by a (stupid made up) gender neutral name (because she hates her real name) and never used to be bothered when strangers thought she was a boy. We'd roll our eyes and laugh about it.

But she has given in to the seemingly constant "accusations" that she is trans. In the last year or so, she has developed noticable breasts and she hates her body (more than normal teenage girl stuff) and sees any suggestions of being a girl as being the worse thing in the world. I used to call her my "lovely girl" etc. I now try to say my "lovely one" instead.

I don't want to encourage this but nor do I want to make her to shut down / become entrenched /make a bigger deal out of it. We still call her she and we also call her by her proper name. She seems happy with that. As far as I can make out all her friends still call her she too.

One of her friends claims to be trans. This is mainly because she likes football and her dad told her girls don't play football. Another is trans because she has a boys haircut, has a small chest and doesn't like her feminine name. What is this nonsense?

Her and a friend went to Pride last year. I never used to have any issues about that but last year it definitely had more of a kink/fetish thing going on which made me very uncomfortable and Im not sure how I feel about her going this year. I might have to double book her so that she doesn't go but I'm not stopping her iyswim.

A stall at Pride also sold her a chest binder. I'm still furious about that. I found it by accident (which is how this all came out). I talked to her about it causing tissue damage etc and I've bought her some medium support sports tops that don't look like bras and she seems OK about that if not completely happy.

She is in scouts and I have told her categorically that she will not be sharing tents, toilets etc with boys. She looked at me like I was stupid and asked why she would want to.

I don't care about her sexual orientation (as long as she's happy and her relationships are healthy). I do care that she is being pushed into this gender ideology crap based on, as far as I can tell, nothing biy good old fashioned gender stereotypes.

When I found the chest binder and asked her about it, she denied all knowledge and pretended she didn't know what it was. I kept it neutral and just said it was to make people look flat chested but it causes tissue damage and could have long term effects. She still denied it was hers but then burst into tears and said she was trans. Obviously my first reaction was to give her a hug and tell her we love her.

Last week someone called her son and I asked how she felt about it. She looked really sad but then angrily said "it's better than being a girl". That's the most I can get out of her really.

I don't know where she is getting this from. I've looked at her YouTube stuff (under the guise of her showing me her favoirite videos) and I can't see anything obvious in there. I've asked her outright and she just shrugs.

She's changing schools in September to somewhere much smaller. I'm hoping that stops some of this. That school runs a "women in science" mentoring type programme. I suggested she might be interested and she flew off the handle. Partly because she doesn't want to get advantages because she is female (which I get) but also because she's trans anyway.

I'm just worried. She's a little ball of anger at the moment and I don't know what to do. I have suggested talking with someone but she refuses to even consider it. I'm also scared we'll end up with someone who supports the trans idea.

Maybe I'm transphobic. I think i might be because I don't support the idea that people can change sex. What even is gender? It's a social stereotype. I don't care if a man wants to wear a dress and call himself Doris. I do care if said man wants to use women only spaces.

I don't want to alienate my daughter.

Is she autistic?

Get her a therapist, an open minded one who will let her explore and address this issue. It could be a phase, but by dismissing it you will alienate her. She needs to be able to explore who she is safely. The fact she’s hiding a binder means she doesn’t feel she can talk to you and that’s not what you want.
You also need to prepare yourself for the outcome that she might be trans. She may have said it’s because of other people but really it’s how she feels. And you can’t know that until you let her talk.

my daughter did the same thing, but talked to me about, lived as a boy for a while even. Then as she matured and was allowed to explore in therapy and knew it didn’t matter to me what she was so she was safe. now she doesn’t identify that way anymore. But if she had, then that has to be ok unless you want to lose your kid, it’s that simple.

Thank you everyone. I will read all the replies amd I appreciate them. Just to answer a few things.

I will look at those links. I did join a couple of FB groups but they weren't right for me. They were full of parents who definitely push being trans. I left after the mother of a 4 year old boy started asking how she could support her son because he wanted to wear his older sisters clothes so must be trans. Rather than being told he's 4, just let him wear them, it doesn't mean anything, people started talking about places who could prescribe him puberty blockers. That's not right. Regardless of your feelings about being trans, telling the mother of a 4 year old who wants to dress like his sister how to get medicine, isn't right.

Hiding the chest binder broke my heart. Just because she felt the need to hide something that is clearly causing her distress.

I've never told her she's not trans, I've just tried to speak with her about what makes her think that and about how her football loving friend's dad is just stupid etc. I've talked about gender stereotypes and the benefits and disadvantages of labels. I've also reiterated the importance of talking to us especially about things that are worrying her.

When she told me, I told my husband/her dad but asked him to leave it because I didn't want her feel attacked from both sides. He still spoke with her. She got upset with me for telling him and said she doesn't want to tell me things now.

I've found the date of pride and will be booking something else for that day. I don't think she is in the right frame of mind to go but I don't want to say no and seem unreasonable and like I'm punishing her. She enjoys it and being gay/bi/pan/whatever it felt important to her. But yeah, I don't want her somewhere, where stalls will sell a 14year old a chest binder and who knows what else. Plus, the people in fetish wear etc. I know it was never designed as a family day out but it is marketed as one but it isn't anymore.

I know there is a strong link between autism and gender identity. I'm starting to wonder if there is some sort of autism. She's getting quite stuck in her ways and sometimes small things get blown out of proportion. We went to the theatre a few months back, I couldn't really see so in the interval I moved us to the row behind. Literally the same seats but a row back and better views for both of us. She could stay in the same seat if she wanted. She had a meltdown, got really upset and apparently I ruined the whole thing. My husband thinks that some of it, is just her trying to exert control. He said that he did similar at her age but I'm not sure. She hates change. She has insisted on the same school shoes and casual shoes for the last 4 years. Luckily they are adult size so there are larger sizes if she needs them. I don't know whether that's just because she can't be bothered shoe shopping and likes them or if it's something more. She's always found busy/noisy places stressful and overstimulating but so do I. Her current school is huge and all the people pushing at lunch etc upsets her so it's one of the reason she's moving somewhere a lot smaller.

4 years old 😣

Please have a read of that book recommended here OP and Bayswayer. Wishing you all the best.

I know it’s always said on these threads but are you sure she’s not ASD? Your recent post suggests she might be? (I am not an expert though!). There is a strong link between autism and gender distress.

Having been there, my best advice is try whatever you can do to keep a good relationship with her (I know it's hard when they are in the worst of it) because part of the narrative is 'your parents don't understand and won't support you so you should keep everything secret from them and talk to people who understand-ie people peddling trans narrative online'.

Try not to focus on the trans thing as if it's the most important thing, focus on finding ways to share enjoyable time together and ignore the trans thing as much as possible. If using her real name causes rage on her part there are ways to avoid using any name. DH referred to DD as 'the eldest' for ages.

Also definitely try to restrict and check her Internet access. Part of this is getting her out of her room and doing other stuff, getting her involved in activities etc.

As much as possible try and keep her away from NHS professionals especially anyone relating to mental health. My experience is there are loads of well meaning people who don't have a clue and will immediately suggest 'referring to gender services'. AVOID this at all costs.

My DD is 18 now and coming out the other side of it, and the most positive thing is we have a really close loving relationship after the years of it being really hard work.

At the end of the day you can't make them desist, they have to find their own way to that but you can allow them to do that against a background of love and support.

Sounds like you have intuitively started in the right direction for your family OP.

The cheat binding becomes a huge issue because so many people treat it as minor. But it isn’t. I know of a few young teens who ordered them off the internet and had them delivered to a friend’s house so their parents didn’t know.

There is a paper from a few years ago that went through just how many of those wearing binders had significant negative health impacts. I saw people on MN dismiss it all as ‘they just needed to get them properly measured and fitted. And only wear them 8 hours and don’t exercise in them’.

No, just no! That is just repeating the trope directly from groups like Mermaids. And look how discredited Mermaids has been now. They even admitted in the Charity Commission hearing how they give medical advice but acknowledge they are not medical experts in any way. Just like Stonewall has had to admit that they gave guidance to create policies and insisted their Diversity Champions members had to shape their policies to reflect that guidance, when they also then admit in court that they don’t consider themselves to be legal experts. And have been shown to be on the losing side of their interpretation of the law on numerous occasions.

The point being that the advice these groups are giving is proving to be just their wishful thinking and only ideologically based, not evidence based. If you do need other information sites, I have found SEGM a good source.

https://segm.org

It requires a lot of reading and discussion to work out what is best for you and your family. And I don’t just mean you being part of the discussion, but watching discussion. Watching debates. Watching MN threads unfold and developing an understanding of ‘why’ and ‘how’ And by that, I mean read all the links that are posted, including reading the ones you disagree with.

Because in reading and listening to the content, you understand where the teenagers might pick up their ideas and talking points. And watch the tactics used by posters who seem keen to mindlessly repeat empty platitudes and these mantra like statements. Or to simply just keep denying there is any issue to be concerned about. (Such as those who dismiss concerns about Pride events and not being somewhere to take your children and young teens).

You will see posters on MN simply repeating those mantra style statements that end up eventually being shown as harmful. It is interesting to read threads on AIBU and the Sex and Gender board from
a few years ago and see what was said with the hindsight of what is now known. Things like how pronouns are harmless, that no child was getting put on medical treatment plans with so little observation from clinicians, that puberty blockers are safe and completely reversible, that support groups are completely safe and to say their safeguarding is non-existent is just hatred and bigotry. And the mindless chest binding positive statements.

But those also go hand in hand with a particularly harmful one that goes like this - ‘all ‘medical’ treatments have some negative side effects and patients who experience regret. Gender affirming care must be allowed because it is life saving and makes reduces those patient’s distress’.

Horrifically, we are now beginning to understand just how much damage has been allowed under those very dismissive mantra like statements. And all the boundaries that have been lowered by the use of them.

And when you are forewarned by this reading and watching, you become armed with the knowledge of how best to show the falsehoods and to stick to the facts. Which will hopefully allow your family to navigate this.

The fact that you called it nonsense right at the top suggests that maybe you should listen to your daughter and then you might avoid alienating her

i cant see that she said it to her daughter, she is allowed to tell the truth on an anonymous online forum

You know you are offering advice on mumsnet….you’ve literally told her that she shouldn’t listen to anyone on mumsnet

Rufus, you are far too logical. There is something of a blockage where the hypocrisy of those posts never enters their mind.

Op you’ll find a huge amount of helpful info on the mn feminism boards, and posts there from parents in similar situations.

Both my dd 14 and myself are autistic, and what you described in your post about the theatre and your dd’s other struggles and behaviours could well be autism. Especially the sensory things like with the shoes and with change and overwhelm at school. There’s a disproportionate amount of young autistic girls who think they could be trans, a lot of research is being done in why this could be. Personally with my own experiences as well as my daughter’s, I’d definitely look into neurodivergence and girls, there are some really good organisations with helpful info to see if you think she might be ND, off the top of my head Autistic Girls Network, especially info on female presentation and masking. See if any of it sounds like your daughter

She is a confused young teenager. I also think you are doing a good job in a difficult situation. I also agree it could be looked on as a harmless temporary faze if it wasn't for such monstrous things as chest binders and drugs to slow down puberty. It's terrifying. And also folk banging the trans drum.

A journey towards irreversible body modification, potential infertility, potential disabling conditions caused by artificial hormones? Yeah, let’s all hold hands and go down that glorious path

”It sounds like she's determined to go on this journey, and surely it's a journey you want to go on with her on and not let her make it on her own.”

I mean, this paragraph doesn’t sound threatening at all, does it? Surely, telling any parent that their child might make these very serious decisions about their life anyway and that the parent should just get on board had been shown to be incredibly harmful. Not only to tell this to the parent, but this is also the indirect message being picked up and used as emotional leverage by those in children getting this message from the internet and support groups and their peers.

I know 😀

it happens a lot

’you wont get any help on mumsnet’ while offering help 😳

Maybe try approaching it by talking about why so many teen girls these days don't want to be girls.

It sometimes seems like feminism's gone backwards, or at least it has if you're a teen. So much creepy sexualisation if young girls now, boys sending them creepy messages and dick pics and God knows what, all the social media stuff encouraging them to compare themselves to Instagram models etc. if we'd had all that when I was a teen I'd have wished I wasn't a girl, I think. Talk to her about that. Does she try to look androgynous because she's been sexually harassed at school? Is she put off the idea off growing up and having a heterosexual sex life because she keeps hearing that that'll mean doing anal and getting choked? Seriously, so much of the stuff they have to put up with now is awful. Try to find out what's scaring her.

I think you’ve written a thoughtful and sensitive post OP, stick with what you are doing and saying.

Yes this
She is finding out about her sexuality she may be lesbian she may be trans she's figuring it all out just be supportive and kind until she works it all out

Buy Helen Joyce's book.

I think you are taking the right approach OP. You haven't "banned" it but you are gently steering away from it and also exploring what else might be making her feel that way. Good luck

This is what happens when we “tolerate” this rubbish instead of shutting it down: they get to our children. How long before she starts buying synthetic hormones online and ends up infertile?