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Original poster

Issue over lack of personal condolences

46 replies

SorcererGaheris · 17/03/2025 11:38

A situation has recently occurred in which I truly don't believe I've been unreasonable or strange in either my thinking or actions (or lack of actions, one might say) and thought I might throw it out here.

I understand some people skim or don't read the full introductory posts thoroughly, but I'm going to try to give as much context and information as I can in this, so I ask that people do read this post fully.

I have a close friend whom I've known for 15 years. One of the few proper friends he has; he doesn't have a broad or overly active social life. His father died in 2002 (this friend is 63), but his mother (aged 90) is still alive, and for as long as I've known him has lived in Scotland (friend and I live in the south-east of England area.)

My friend has had a rocky relationship with his mother for ages; according to him, she once told him "I love you but I don't like you." (Full context - my friend can be a rather difficult person at times; he's very strident in his views and can often come across as belligerent and uncompromising. He also enjoys debating/arguing about them and will often bring contentious issues like politics up.) So I'm not trying to blame his mother for their relationship; I think they're probably both at fault to a degree, but I can see how my friend can be difficult to get along with. He and his mother have, on numerous occasions, clashed over the phone, and on occasions when they've been visiting each other.

Anyway, in the 15 years of my knowing my friend, I have met his mother in person a sum total of TWO times, on occasions when she's come to visit my friend (she also visits his cousin, with whom she stays when she visits.) She can't stay with my friend, because he lives in a shared house; he literally just has one room that's his own.

So his mother and I have no personal relationship at all; she's just the mother of a good friend of mine and we've hardly ever interacted. We barely know each other. He'll often mention me/mention things going on in my life when he has phone conversations with his Mum, just as he'll chat about her to me, so we each hear about the other, but there's no personal relationship/connection between us.

At the end of January, my friend's brother died unexpectedly, so I naturally gave sympathy to my friend and he knows if he needs support, I'm there. He hadn't been overly close to his brother in their adult life (his brother had some serious mental health problems) but they kept in contact and according to my friend had been very close as children/teenagers. I had no relationship with his brother at all and had never met him in person. Years back, I did add him on FB and we'd occasionally had some brief interaction on there, but that's all.

So, to reiterate: I never met his brother and only sporadically had brief interaction with him on FB. In fifteen years, I've met my friend's mother TWICE and never had any communication with her outside of that.

My friend's mother is now angry and upset with me because I haven't sought to get in touch with her to express my condolences over her son dying. When my friend first told me about this a few weeks ago, I was stunned; it had never crossed my mind that she would expect or even want me to do this, because the two of us don't have a personal relationship of any kind. I'm just her son's good friend. (As I also said before, I also don't have contact details for her, though I can easily get them from my friend.)

I truly don't think I've acted out of turn in not thinking to get in touch with her - to me, it doesn't seem like the normal state of affairs, to personally phone or write to someone you don't really know to give condolences. My relationship (friendship) is with her son (my friend) so I naturally personally gave condolences to him.

I just really don't believe that I've stepped wrong here. If his mother and I actually had a relationship, that would be different. Or if I'd had a relationship with his brother. But I don't/didn't.

So far I haven't attempted to contact her, for several reasons:

One, I don't feel comfortably speaking over the phone to someone who is apparently very angry with me at the moment.

Two, I feel that if I offered condolences to her now, it would be a forced, and therefore hollow gesture that doesn't really mean anything.

Three, according to my friend, she's suggested to him that he should disown me because of this. (I think this is a complete overreaction and makes me actively not want to contact her in any way.)

So: I'm NOT looking for views on whether I should contact her in some form or not (maybe I'll end up doing that anyway.)

But, given the fact that she and I have no relationship of our own, SURELY I was not unreasonable in my initial assumption that she would neither desire nor expect me to contact her to express condolences. (An incorrect assumption, as it turned out, but I think it was a perfectly reasonable assumption to make.)

OP posts:
Firefly45 · 17/03/2025 11:43

This is absolutely bonkers! Of course you shouldn't have contacted the mum. You don't know her and she doesn't even have a good relationship with her other son, your friend.

Absolutely insane.

I'd go to the 'let them' approach. You have been a good friend and passed on genuine condolences. Let them take it from here and if they ditch you for this it's most definitely their loss not yours.

Jellycatspyjamas · 17/03/2025 11:45

It may be a cultural thing. I’m Scottish and would offer condolences (usually in the form of a card to a friends parents in the event of a loss. In the same way I’d go to the funeral of someone I didn’t know to offer support to a close friend eg when a friend of mine lost her brother (who I had never met) I went to his funeral to show support to her and did offer condolences to her mum, who I had met a handful of times.

That would be pretty usual in my part of the world, but I know seems unusual to friends in other parts of the UK.

MrsBennetsPoorNerves · 17/03/2025 11:49

Obviously NBU.

In terms of whether or not you should contact her, I would be guided by what would be most beneficial for your friend.

SleepingStandingUp · 17/03/2025 11:50

I think culturally for me (central England) I would give condolences to my friend and ask after the mother, possibly I might say "we'll pass on my condolences/ tell her I'm thinking of her" etc. but I don't think it's rude not to

However I do think it's rather rude / inappropriate to tell you what she said. Is he expecting you to make it up to her? To beg to not be cut off? Is he just demonstrating how irrational she is since her loss?

nodramaplz · 17/03/2025 11:52

Let them do what they want to do, to see what they would rather do!

Fountains · 17/03/2025 11:54

Jellycatspyjamas · 17/03/2025 11:45

It may be a cultural thing. I’m Scottish and would offer condolences (usually in the form of a card to a friends parents in the event of a loss. In the same way I’d go to the funeral of someone I didn’t know to offer support to a close friend eg when a friend of mine lost her brother (who I had never met) I went to his funeral to show support to her and did offer condolences to her mum, who I had met a handful of times.

That would be pretty usual in my part of the world, but I know seems unusual to friends in other parts of the UK.

Irish and I’d do that too, in Ireland, but what the OP’s post signals most strongly here is that it’s very clear why the OP’s friend has so few friends, and why his family is so dysfunctional.

OP, why has your strange friend yet old you any of this? That’s the oddity here, that he’s making it your issue. I mean, when I lived and worked in England, I found neighbours’ and colleagues’ attitudes to others’ bereavement almost incomprehensible at times, but wrote it down to cultural differences.

Delilaaaah · 17/03/2025 12:03

I am surprised that you have taken this on board so deeply and were unable to bat it away for the irrational nonsense that it is.

I wonder if your boundaries are poor and you have unhealthy people pleasing tendancies and such a level of self doubt to give it such headspace.

You know they are both extremely difficult characters - I would take a step back and be clear that you will no be triangulated in their messy dynamics at a time of unexpected bereavement when their ususal dysfunction will be amplified.

Lovelysummerdays · 17/03/2025 12:08

I think you’d friend is in the wong for relaying this to you the correct response is to tell your mother she’s being unreasonable and gently move conversation elsewhere. By repeating it to you it’s just making it worse. Personally I’d let it go but I’d take note of the behaviour and if friend repeats reconsider the friendship.

Fountains · 17/03/2025 12:13

Delilaaaah · 17/03/2025 12:03

I am surprised that you have taken this on board so deeply and were unable to bat it away for the irrational nonsense that it is.

I wonder if your boundaries are poor and you have unhealthy people pleasing tendancies and such a level of self doubt to give it such headspace.

You know they are both extremely difficult characters - I would take a step back and be clear that you will no be triangulated in their messy dynamics at a time of unexpected bereavement when their ususal dysfunction will be amplified.

That’s fair, I think.

Velmy · 17/03/2025 12:13

I wouldn't have spent more than five seconds thinking about this.

Presumably your friend thinks that it's absolutely bat shit as well and will tell his mother as such if she keeps going on about it?

Original poster
SorcererGaheris · 17/03/2025 12:18

SleepingStandingUp · 17/03/2025 11:50

I think culturally for me (central England) I would give condolences to my friend and ask after the mother, possibly I might say "we'll pass on my condolences/ tell her I'm thinking of her" etc. but I don't think it's rude not to

However I do think it's rather rude / inappropriate to tell you what she said. Is he expecting you to make it up to her? To beg to not be cut off? Is he just demonstrating how irrational she is since her loss?

@SleepingStandingUp

To be honest, even though it might not have been the best/normal thing to do, I'm glad he's told me how she's feeling/what she's saying, as on balance, I think I'd like to be aware.

I also think my friend feels caught in between a rock and a hard place, with his mother voicing her anger/disapproval to him over the phone, and it stresses him out. So by telling me what she's said, I'm an outlet for him to vent.

I don't think he's necessarily expecting me to do anything - earlier on, he did seem to be more inclined to agree with his mother, but he wasn't holding it against me or anything like this. I think his views have come more around to my way of thinking now, especially since he's had some very fractious recent conversations with his mother over another issue.

Also, I would say my friend is a bit of a "blabbermouth" - not in a malicious way, but in an unthinking way. Unless he's specifically told not to tell someone something, it usually doesn't occur to him that things might be expected to be kept between him and the other person. (I think sometimes I can occasionally be that way too, but not to the level that he is; there are some things that I sort of figure out are best kept to myself.)

OP posts:
AtrociousCircumstance · 17/03/2025 12:21

She’s a grieving mother. Maybe she’s not acting rationally.

Pass on your condolences via your friend.

LightCameraBitchSmile · 17/03/2025 12:24

I think your friend's mother thinks you are in a relationship with her son, and that's why she's annoyed.

BinWim · 17/03/2025 12:27

Velmy · 17/03/2025 12:13

I wouldn't have spent more than five seconds thinking about this.

Presumably your friend thinks that it's absolutely bat shit as well and will tell his mother as such if she keeps going on about it?

I agree

TunnocksOrDeath · 17/03/2025 12:31

Is there any chance at all that your friend's mother has misinterpreted your relationship and views you more as her son's 'special' friend? She's also probably not thinking very straight right now.

Original poster
SorcererGaheris · 17/03/2025 12:37

Jellycatspyjamas · 17/03/2025 11:45

It may be a cultural thing. I’m Scottish and would offer condolences (usually in the form of a card to a friends parents in the event of a loss. In the same way I’d go to the funeral of someone I didn’t know to offer support to a close friend eg when a friend of mine lost her brother (who I had never met) I went to his funeral to show support to her and did offer condolences to her mum, who I had met a handful of times.

That would be pretty usual in my part of the world, but I know seems unusual to friends in other parts of the UK.

Maybe that's something to do with it. His mother isn't Scottish herself, though she's lived there since around the mid 1990s - so maybe she's picked up some cultural habits. Since she's spent most of her life in England, though, I would have thought that she would recognise that what may be done culturally (in this scenario) in Scotland is not necessarily something that people in England would think to do.

OP posts:
wnpmme · 17/03/2025 12:38

I wonder if his mother thinks you are his partner rather than just a friend. I'd expect a partner to send condoloences to their partner's mother in such a case.
Otherwise it's really over the top of her.

melonalone · 17/03/2025 12:41

Your friend is unreasonable for passing this information on to you. You need never have known anything about this. I would maybe take a step back from the friendship, at least temporarily.

Original poster
SorcererGaheris · 17/03/2025 12:42

Fountains · 17/03/2025 11:54

Irish and I’d do that too, in Ireland, but what the OP’s post signals most strongly here is that it’s very clear why the OP’s friend has so few friends, and why his family is so dysfunctional.

OP, why has your strange friend yet old you any of this? That’s the oddity here, that he’s making it your issue. I mean, when I lived and worked in England, I found neighbours’ and colleagues’ attitudes to others’ bereavement almost incomprehensible at times, but wrote it down to cultural differences.

Show quote history

@Fountains

Basically - I think with his mother at one point suggesting that he disown me over this - I think it's made him feel caught between a rock and a hard place. There's me, a relatively longstanding good friend, and his mother, who despite their troubled relationship, he has familial loyalty to.

So by telling me how his mother has reacted and what she is saying, it's a way for him to vent, I think. Get it off his chest, as I think his mother's reaction has stressed him a bit, and he's already stressed over another matter with her (which is also related to his brother's death.)

My friend is also a bit of a blabbermouth, in an unthinking way. Unless he's specifically told that something is to be kept to himself, it generally won't occur to him that he should keep quiet about it. I suspect that he is autistic (as his mother does too.) I'm autistic myself and literally the first thing I thought when I first met him was, "I think he's 'one of us'."

OP posts:
Original poster
SorcererGaheris · 17/03/2025 12:43

melonalone · 17/03/2025 12:41

Your friend is unreasonable for passing this information on to you. You need never have known anything about this. I would maybe take a step back from the friendship, at least temporarily.

To be honest, I'd prefer to know, especially as circumstances dictate that it's almost certain that I'll be meeting face-to-face with his mother again at some point in the future.

OP posts:
melonalone · 17/03/2025 12:44

SorcererGaheris · 17/03/2025 12:42

@Fountains

Basically - I think with his mother at one point suggesting that he disown me over this - I think it's made him feel caught between a rock and a hard place. There's me, a relatively longstanding good friend, and his mother, who despite their troubled relationship, he has familial loyalty to.

So by telling me how his mother has reacted and what she is saying, it's a way for him to vent, I think. Get it off his chest, as I think his mother's reaction has stressed him a bit, and he's already stressed over another matter with her (which is also related to his brother's death.)

My friend is also a bit of a blabbermouth, in an unthinking way. Unless he's specifically told that something is to be kept to himself, it generally won't occur to him that he should keep quiet about it. I suspect that he is autistic (as his mother does too.) I'm autistic myself and literally the first thing I thought when I first met him was, "I think he's 'one of us'."

Show quote history

Why are you making excuses for him? The man is 63! Surely he can make his own decision about “disowning” you without telling you all about it.

FOJN · 17/03/2025 12:44

You have met his mum twice and you have no personal relationship with her so I don't understand why you are bothered by this.

You think your friend just needed to vent, I'd suggest he loves drama.

The next time he tells you she thinks he should "disown" you I'd simply tell him that's up to him but you will not contact her to give personal condolences because you have no personal relationship with her.

If he's bringing it up repeatedly then I would ask him to stop or create some distance for a while.

The family seems to specialise in high conflict relationships, you would be a fool to get drawn in to the drama.

Oopsps · 17/03/2025 12:44

His mother is 90 - that age group like cards and its likely since your friend has a limited friendship she has the wrong impression of your friendship ie thinks of you as more family.

Are you wrong? No - but I suspect a condolence card might help a grieving elderly mother and nice thing to do to help a stranger. It's not too late.

melonalone · 17/03/2025 12:45

SorcererGaheris · 17/03/2025 12:43

To be honest, I'd prefer to know, especially as circumstances dictate that it's almost certain that I'll be meeting face-to-face with his mother again at some point in the future.

Show quote history

Surely you won’t bother to meet her since she’s slagging you off?

Original poster
SorcererGaheris · 17/03/2025 12:46

AtrociousCircumstance · 17/03/2025 12:21

She’s a grieving mother. Maybe she’s not acting rationally.

Pass on your condolences via your friend.

I may well do that. (Though I think what she expects is a personal message or phone call from me, rather than condolences via my friend.)

And yes, I do try to bear in mind that she is grieving. I honestly don't have a problem with his mother, beyond being feeling rather put out at some of her comments about this situation.

OP posts: