Rather then cut certain benefits why not means test them?

[cadooyahoo]

I know someone who imo does not get enough support for their disability (they are blind) & am aware many disabled people live in poverty so I don't think we should cut benefits. Wouldn't it make more sense to means test PIP, DLA & AA?

Like UC and savings limits to declare you can rely on applicants at the time of claiming to be honest and regularly do random checks. I think we are at a point in time where the excuse that it would cost too much to means test is not a valid argument. The country needs to save money and rather than targeting the sick and disabled means testing would be fairer. Nobody moans that UC reviews are costly or the carers allowance earnings limit shouldn’t be checked we just accept that it’s necessary so why not have checks for higher earners and means test .

Some disability benefits are gateway benefits so they’d have to have an underlying entitlement certificate for some but no payment so they could access services if necessary.

Because less than 1 in 6 people claiming PIP work. Of those 1 in 6 it’s highly likely that majority of them would be below the threshold as a lot of people with disabilities will be limited to part time work.

Meaning testing would barely remove anyone from PIP but cost an absolute fortune to implement.

How many people do you think claim benefits but earn over £100k?

I know my friends DH earns that & my aunt is a millionaire but gets AA.

Then you're means testing blue badges, bus passes, disabled railcards, carers tickets, etc for many and the many other things you may get because of pip

@woolflower Im not just talking about PIP!!

There was a lawyer on LBC who earned over 6 figs who got PIP, he made me think tbh.

I'd agree it's better to introduce a robust and fair testing system. It would mean more jobs creating the departments to do so, and those who actually need the financial help are getting it.

Such a good point.

It just doesn't seem right that my blind friend who really struggles should see cuts which would really hurt her because means tested is expensive.

There would have to be an underlying entitlement certificate to allow a claimant to still access these services and just not receive the dla/pip money

@FuckssakeMulder

No, that's very true.

It's clear it's not just income that matters for means testing but the level of the award. The max pip is 700 odd a month which would have a big impact on even on high earners if they had to fund it themselves.

I honestly think everything should be means tested. That is to help protect the most vulnerable in society, as it's far more sustainable as well as less work for people to deal with many different systems.

The entire point of bringing in UC was to bring benefits together under one system. But there are still so many parts that are separate. Things like school uniform grants, free school meals, council tax reduction, all the payments up here under social security Scotland like Scottish child payment etc as well as so many disability payments. So much paperwork and rechecking of financial data. If it was all properly brought together on one system it would be far more efficient.

My family should not be punished because DH earns over £50k. He has to basically fund our family because my income has reduced. PIP (for multiple sclerosis) enables me to work part time and gives me some dignity and purpose. I could have stayed on contribution based ESA forever after a massive relapse but I eventually went back to work because I want to work. What sort of disgusting government targets disabled people who are striving to work?

how about instead of cutting benefits for the poorest in society, we look at getting back some of the money thats been sucked out of the system by the super rich and the corporations over the last 15 years, and carry on doing that on a year on year basis. Then maybe our public services would work, the benchmark to access MH support via the NHS would mean many claiming anxiety/MH issues could get help and back to the work most of them probably want to do, and those with medical/physical issues who are syuck in waiting list queues could also get their lives back.

That's how UC already works for some disability payments though. All the entitlements get added up, and then adjusted for income. Therefore the greater your level of disability the more you can earn before UC stops. They could do the same for other disability payments. They could also change the work allowance if needed too, like they do for people with children etc. so you can earn more before they start adjusting for income.

The processes are already in place to allow this,

He probably pays a lot of tax. Doesn't he deserve support to keep paying tax?

What a stupid nation we have become. We punish resilient, determined people who contribute to society in spite of severe disability. All to prioritise 18 year olds with 'anxiety' who would rather stay in their bedrooms gaming for the next sixty years.

He probably pays a lot of tax. Doesn't he deserve support to keep paying tax?

In an ideal world yes but why means test any benefits then?

The average disability cost is £1k per month. The maximum pip is £737 every 4 weeks

You're just going to make the most vulnerable people worse off

It loos as though they are backing off from PIP cuts and just trying to sort out ESA/UC.

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/articles/cy9dgwe1q27o

What a stupid nation we have become. We punish resilient, determined people who contribute to society in spite of severe disability. All to prioritise 18 year olds with 'anxiety' who would rather stay in their bedrooms gaming for the next sixty years.

So would not give any benefits for mental health reasons @Jabtastic?

You're just going to make the most vulnerable people worse off

But how will cuts make them better off?!

The welfare system is a luxury afforded to successful and productive countries. The UK has been in decline for decades and we can no longer afford to provide these benefits. The UK is like someone who was once rich bemoaning that they can no longer afford to live in a nice house and have a nice car. We have to live within our means.

We could save money by getting rid of the assessments, the amount going to tribunal, stop reassessing people with life long disability

Means testing destroys incentives to work. If you get UC you already have limited incentive to work because your UC is withdrawn by 55p for every pound you earn, so on top of tax and NI that means you might only get to keep 15p for every pound of marginal earnings. If you means test PIP and other benefits as well then people on PIP and UC together could face marginal tax rates of over 100%, ie making them better off out of work than in. That’s obviously bad for everyone.

@TigerRag I agree, if someone is paralysed or without a limb why reassess them?

Means testing destroys incentives to work

So why means test anything?