To want to split with DH after 25 years together?

[stoviesfortea]

I have had thoughts of leaving DH on and off throughout our marriage but it’s always been too difficult. Kids too young, finances etc. We are very different and I actually don’t know why we even got together. It feels like it just happened and now 25 years later and 18 years of marriage, here I am.

We generally get on and have had many good times but the same old arguments and clashes come up time and time again. It’s hard to get compromises and when we argue we both just seethe and hold resentment, push it away, ignore it and then things go back to normal. But then a few months later the arguments appear again.

A big issue is I think DH has ASD (which he doesn’t believe) as one of the things we’ve always clashed over is his avoidance of people and socialising, I can count on one hand the amount of times he’s gone out with me and my friends in the 25 years together. We do separate activities and I actually avoid going out with him as he’s so awkward if we bump into anyone. I have learned to live an essentially separate life apart from the things we do at home with the kids. I’m actually fine having this sort of life so a life without him might not feel much different. He also lacks empathy and insight and this really gets to me.

The latest argument was that he blew up when I said I wanted our kitchen done up (it’s literally falling apart) and he said no as has a total issue with workmen being in the house. We’ve had house stuff done over the years but he’s always said it’s ‘hell’ and has major issues with workmen being in our house.

We are also clashing over money. We’ve always been independent finance wise (own accounts but have a joint account too and split all bills), fairly comfortable (not rich but not poor) and mortgage now paid off. I recently got a decent amount of money so we can totally afford to do the house up and go on some nice holidays. Although I’ve said this is essentially family money he has this weird male pride thing where he says HE can’t afford these things so we can’t do them. Even though the money is sitting there! It’s bloody bizarre and feels a bit controlling. We had a huge argument over this with me saying I’ll pay for holidays and the kitchen and he’s saying they don’t need done and he can’t afford them anyway. AIBU to think that’s weird?!

We also clash over sex- he would happily do it every night whereas I cannot be arsed. We do have sex about once a week but if there’s a gap of even a few weeks he goes in a weird mood and we’ve had major arguments about this in the past.

He also says I constantly nag but he is so untidy and messy and I’m sick of running about after him and our kids. We have 2 daughters who are nearing the end of school and the thought of them going off to uni and me being with DH for another 18 years does not fill me with joy, the opposite in fact 😢

He has some pluses too but the minuses always seem to trump these.

I’ve said before we should split but I’ve never followed through with it. This time though feels different as the kids are older, I think they’d be OK and maybe not majorly surprised, I could potentially buy him out of the house, and I am getting no younger (we are in our 50’s)

AIBU to finally split?!!

He is focusing on what suits him.
Of course he knows exactly what he is doing, how difficult and unpleasant he is.

He quickly changed his mind on the kitchen the minute he realised he might have gone too far.
That indicates absolute clarity as to his actions, the consequences and how he must backtrack to maintain the status quo.

MN is full of posters that love to ascribe abusive, controlling arsehole behaviour to autism.
Sometimes autistic people are just arseholes and the two are a coincidence.

I have several in my family and I can see the difference clearly.

This is a very difficult man who wants everything his own way. He selfishly dominates the house and he likes it.
He knows that you are seeing things clearly and he is determined that things will stay the same.

I feel so sorry for your daughters growing up in a house where one difficult man and what he wants dominates and keeps friends away.
It is a stain on their childhood that will remain.
It will 100% affect their choices in life and keep them away from visiting.

I know I had one such arsehole for a father. My parents didn't their children for dust after they left home asap. My mother paid the price for expecting her children to tolerate his dominant selfishness.

Create a warm safe space for your daughters to return to or you may well suffer a similar fate.

You and they deserve better.

I expect he's picking up on your quietness as you plan your exit strategy. He wants you "back to normal" so that he can put aside any concerns that you might be thinking of ending the marriage.

He will also be looking to blame [insert excuse here] for your current state of unhappiness. Anything that absolves him.

Be kind to yourself. Keep your eyes on the prize - a better, brighter, happier future. I don't know where you are in the country, but it's a beautiful morning out there.

That's him trying to tell you that you are not really upset about his behaviour but it's in fact because your DD is leaving for uni. Then he can use that to say that you are not yourself at the moment when you tell him you are not happy in your marriage, and that it's actually not because of him.

You really can’t see that she’d be getting her family back, not throwing them away. She’d finally be able to make a home her kids are happy to return to, that they might bring friends and partners too? A home that she can have grandchildren visit if she has those down the track. She doesn’t have any of that now. If she stayed her children’s partners would avoid the place like the plague and her children would understand why and she’d have to go to their place to see them much at all. She can have friends over once she’s left him, and clean windows.

This exactly. I also said I was perimenopausal the other day so he will likely jump on that too

I ended up bursting into tears in the car on my way to work. I have a heavy day of meetings but cancelled my first one so I can calm down a bit. I’m sitting in a room on my own now and feeling quite overwhelmed. I’m worried about the impact of separation on the kids and keep thinking I’m being really selfish for bringing such a huge change into their lives just cos their dad annoys me. Their dad isn’t all bad, he does a lot of stuff with them but when I think about it it’s all lone activities. We’ve had brilliant holidays over the years and we often feel like a strong family unit, but it’s when someone comes into that unit things feel awkward (eg folk visiting). I keep thinking is it just me who thinks it’s awkward as he denies it is. But it never feels relaxed or welcomed or natural.

Then I think of how little he’s been involved with them school wise and I remember there’s more to being a parent than just doing the insular family stuff.

Arghhh! I actually screamed in the car. It felt quite therapeutic.

My kids continued to see their dad/have a life with him. No one is saying your kids won't see him (unless they don't want to) Anyhow, your decision of course. I hope you feel ok now.

The kids will sooner rather than later be flying the nest and along the way learn that adult life is not as simple as ‘meeting someone and living together forever no matter what’s. It’s actually very good for them to see (especially as women!) that it’s ok to say ‘that’s enough, I’m putting myself and my happiness first’.

Do you think it will truly be such a life changing shock for them? My mother left my father when I was very young, and whilst I had many other issues in my relationship with her, that is one thing I never resented her for. I had a friend at uni who went home for break and found her father had moved out - again she had seen her parents had been deeply unhappy for years but as she was older had some resentment that it had been done as soon as she’d left. It can lead to some guilt that you were only staying together for the sake of the children, and even completely unintentionally is the worst way to bring it about. Sometimes thinking you’re holding on for the better/easier scenario for the children has the opposite effect, or worse you end up talking yourself out of it altogether whilst just waiting it out.

Hope you’re ok. Truthfully there will be a lot of ups and downs going forward, but once you’re fully untangled it will truly be worth it for all of you.

Do you really know how much envy you feel coming from women without a husband and children? Or do you just project your own values onto them, pity them, and assume they envy you?

Your not been selfish here. Your husband has had years to take on what you have told him. He could have got assessed for ASD and gotten some help. He is not willing to listen to you. As an adult we all have do things we may not like but it's for either our good or our families good. I don't think attending a child's event for a few hours and making some small talk with parents there is a big ask.
Then he does not want a window cleaner or to replace a kitchen that probably older than your kids despite you having the money to do this. He does want workmen in the house along with the noise or disruption to his routine.
Your own kids won't bring their friends around to your house because of him.

No wonder you had enough at this stage. Your looking into your future with him and realising that your unhappy in a long dead marriage. Despite making no effort for you or the kids he still expects sex and sulks if this does not happen.
Then as he gets older he will get worse. Imagine him retired with no friends or interests. You will end up being at home 24/7 with him and him refusing to go places or do thing's. Then he complain when you go places or want friends around.
Imagine him dealing with one of your kids visiting with a toddler and a newborn in the house and how he will be then.

I know it won't be easy telling him that you want a divorce and you hear we get the kitchen done ect but I would just tell him it happening. Why stay with a man who is making no effort for you and his kids and is making your life miserable?
You deserve to be in a happy home and you have the money to change things once your child is finished their exams.

FWIW- you can co parent and be loving supports to each other, you can move from life partners to friendly co parents. It doesn't have to be toxic or seismic, you can consciously uncoupled. It's OK to do that.

Enjoy your independence, when the time comes. Focus on how to gently navigate this by putting the children first.

The screaming in the car, maybe is an indicator that you need to address the menopause. At least speak to your doctor about it (if you Havnt done so already).

If will be fine, you can finance this and the children are well. It s actually a pretty normal path at this time of life.

Yes, I really do know this and no, I' m not pitying them, projecting, nor envying.

I think it's very different at different stages of one's life and in different circumstances.
There was much more pressure previously on women to marry and have children, excepting the extremely rare professor, barrister, surgeon, etcetera.
There are several women of my age I know who have not married, nor had children, and yes I know they are envious that I have a regular family life.
It's different for young women today, who have many more life choices available. It was discussed when I was younger, but wasn't a reality for the vast majority.
I can understand a younger woman, who could support herself (due to better pay equality) leaving an unhappy marriage. I can also understand a woman of any age leaving an abusive or loveless marriage.
However, I think there is at least a question to be asked when a partner is considering leaving a partner who undoubtedly loves her and is a good father.
Apparently OP posted for advice, so I merely raised this obvious point. I'm not telling OP what to do, merely mentioning an important consideration, of what she stands to lose.
What she does is not my business.
IMO, the conclusion is that these threads are not viewed as discussions, as I had thought, but a place to go for validation in slagging of one's spouse. It's a pity.

@SixtySomethingwhat age are you? 60 something? Or far older? It’s sounds like you are from a completely different generation and have very questionable views on gender and equality. You said you understand ending a loveless marriage… if the woman no longer loves the man but the man loves the woman (well, says he does but doesn’t show it) is that grounds to have to stay?? What would you think if the man no longer loved the woman but the woman loved the man?

To stay in a marriage out of duty is not a recipe for a happy marriage. DH clearly knows I’m not happy just now but instead of having concern, insight and discussion he’s diverting it elsewhere and glossing over it yet again, he has no idea how he behaves and when I point it out to him he says it’s all in my head. He says he’s fine, nothing changes, I bury my own head in the sand and the never ending cycle continues

@SixtySomething a few things about your latest post, but this stood out in particular:

However, I think there is at least a question to be asked when a partner is considering leaving a partner who undoubtedly loves her and is a good father.

Firstly someone claiming to ‘love you’ is not enough to hold a relationship, especially if you don’t love them back. And love is more than a word, it’s actions. He has not only shown no action that continues the op to have loving feelings towards him, he’s made active decisions and behaviours that have caused the opposite effect. And he is demonstrably not a ‘good father’ unless your personal bar is ‘exists within the home’. If so, that’s an extremely low bar you have.

I’ll make a huge assumption based on your username and guess you’re in your 60s? I grew up in a very Christian conservative area and whilst my mother (who would have been 64 this year) was a more rare example of a divorced woman when she left my feckless father, she certainly wasn’t the only one. I’d even say it was women of her (your) generation that set off the whole ‘you dont have to put up with mediocre marriages’ idea. She didn’t have a good job when she left, had to rebuild our entire lives but she never went back to the idea of marriage. In fact, she lived a far happier life of friends and the occasional ‘boyfriend’ before illness took her. I’d go as far as saying her biggest regret was not ‘not finding a man for life’ but having children that limited full freedom. By the time I was a teen, most of her friends were divorcees and I honestly can’t think of one who ended up remarrying. Apologies if you’re actually of an older generation, as your ideas are certainly more of the older baby boomers/war gen rather than younger BB/Gen X.

I could've wrote this minus the kids and dogs.

Free yourself, op. My best moment after ltb was realising I'd have no one asking me if he had any clean underpants. Little fucking man boy!

@SixtySomething - I’ll tell you what the op @stoviesfortea really stands to lose, and it’s NOT someone who loves her and a good father. It’s someone who doesn’t consider her feelings, or those of his children, who frustrates his wife til she screams in her car, who actually leaves the house when her family visit, who complains bitterly about fixing anything that would improve their home, who moans when the dc have friends over, who never goes to parents night/prizegivings etc., who never socialises with her, and nags her for sex despite not being kind or affectionate. That’s for starters.
Have you not actually read or understood what she has written? Or is any man a superior being and a woman should be eternally grateful to be so blessed? Jeeez, excavate that bar - it’s at least six feet under.

@stoviesfortea

I'm in my sixties.
I think you're misunderstanding me and there's nothing 'questionable' about my views.
I'm certainly not suggesting you 'have to' do anything; like I said, it's not my business.
Like I also said before, I was trying to balance other perspectives, some of which truly are 'questionable,' by pointing out that a 25 year-long marriage which has produced children is a valuable thing and this needs to be considered. Your DH seems to be showing ASD behaviour and could learn to modify the behaviours which upset you. Presumably he would be willing, with persuasion, to get help to do this to save his marriage.
I've never met you or your husband, so I've no idea whether this would be realistic. You and your DH are the ultimate judges of what's the right thing for your family.

What you say here - wanting to go, kids about to go to Uni, dreading being on my own with him and the prospect of getting old with him- applied to me exactly. 2 years ago I split with him after 30 years, at the age of 59!
I am happy. Going on holidays. Seeing many friends. Joined a Book Club. Love my own house (which I will never share with any man!)
He moved on to someone else very quickly… so not quite as devastated as he made out!
I don’t miss him. Or that life.
Do it!!

Again, did you not read the part where the op said that he won’t go to counselling of any sort? And denies ASD?

Thanks for your interesting post.
I would say we all have different ideas of normality but I do believe my views are very much the norm for my age group. I think your Mum was more unusual , having many divorced friends and perhaps regretting motherhood.
For what it's worth, one thing forming my opinion is that by one's sixties one is beginning to see people lose their partners from illness, or losing their health. This changes one's outlook. Also, the likelihood of some form of disability is real, hence someone at hand becomes more important than their particular qualities. Also, shared past memories become more important. These are the realities of life.
I know there will always be individuals who prefer to be on their own (until illness strikes) and they are prominent on Mumsnet but I just don't believe they are typical.

You do realise if you divorce you’ll have to split your money, unless it was an inheritance you’ve ring fenced?
Divorce is not easy.

YABVU

@SixtySomething I'm 57. I interact with a lot of women in your age group. And I can honestly say (thank goodness) that none of them think like you. About half are single, having left useless men like OP's husband. The rest are in happy second marriages with men who treat them well, having learned from experience and chosen divorce.

My mother however was of the 'stand by your man' school of thought. She encouraged me to stay with my abusive alcoholic husband because 'how would I cope by myself?'

I coped very well, needless to say.

OP's husband has said he is not open to change or to seek an ASD diagnosis. He won't help himself and he doesn't love OP enough to stop making her miserable, though he has been told his behaviour is doing just that. And you are advocating that she should stay? Handmaiden.

No, I'm not advocating anything. I;m saying one should think carefully.

Assuming that OP has not done so is incredibly patronising.