Can I refuse to go on a PIP if I don’t agree with it?

[Gamecha]

Do I have any rights? I feel like this has come out of the blue and absolutely do not feel it is justified. Can I do anything?

not that i disagree but more as a puzzlement at some times it seems why can alot of it be a guessing game as to what your ment to be doing to avoid the performance plan as in your hired to do x tasks but then it seems theres a whole lot of what you should also do for the role but its unwritten so to speak, so its like why not just put that in the job specification to begin with ?

It's more so that if, say there was a company that sells bottles of water, at an entry level you would expect to be told how to bottle the water, and how many you are supposed to bottle in a day. At a senior level, you're supposed to know that along with things you aren't explicitly told - like if half the bottles are leaking you need to find out why that is and fix it. So it won't be in a job description, but good performers will know when there's a problem they need to solve, and not be wandering around going "No one told me to look for holes in the bottles"

The job specification morphs from when a person is hired because change is a given in any organisation. Usually when it is a senior level hire, the employment contract will essentially say you do what it takes to get the job done and part of a job being senior is that you define what needs to be done in order to achieve the outcome.

I agree with the posters below that if this is a senior job, that she should be able to work things out for herself, articulate what the scope of her job is, go out and do it rather than sit back and wait for work/instructions or guidance. It is perhaps frustrating for her manager who is newer in the role to have to 'feed' work to the OP and explain to her if she is a senior hire. OP said she was told she does not need to find work but perhaps she should try to make connections to find work other than asking her manager all the time?

OP does not say she is in a senior role but it sounds like she is experienced and she has said she is not a junior member of staff. She needs to clarify this.

OP also has not clarified whether she came back from sick leave or maternity leave or both and how long she was away for. A long period of absence may have implications. It could be her role has since been parceled out and it is now redundant and the PIP is a sneaky way to avoid redundancy or a discrimination suit.

Because management is literally about initiative.

She means Personal Improvement Plan at work.

If he wants you to leave, the PIP could be suggested to force you to over react and refuse.

I'd take a witness and ask him to evidence where you've failed to perform, why hes jumping straight to formal PIP l, what the PIP targets are and what support is being provided to ensure you unskill in line with it?

If you're on a PIP he's responsible for setting SMART targets and offering training to help you meet them.

I’ll be honest with you. A PIP is a nice way of giving you a chance to resign before they sack you. At this point, justification is irrelevant because they’ll find some way to justify it. Start job hunting NOW, hold your head high and resign as fast as you can.
good luck. If you’re good, you’ll be fine. X

You're playing into his hands, which may be what he wants.

If you have evidence you're already meeting the PIP targets it shouldn't be hard to close this off quickly.

If you think its actually bullying then open a grievance

I was in the same situation as you in a previous employment. The manager that recruited me left and they gave his job to a woman who was a lawyer. On paper we should have got on famously as our personal backgrounds were really similar. However, I was a process person, brought in to facilitate processes between internal and the external company they were using as a facilitation in the water industry. I was basically left without direction and work even when I repeatedly asked for it. I started emailing my line manager and the overall manager asking for work, what they wanted me to do etc with no replies. If you're in the same position I suggest you start emailing your manager asking for work, direction etc and keeping your emails and his/her replies as evidence. I was lucky as I worked in the public sector had been with the organisation forever and had good contacts and higher level managers I had worked with so found it easy to get another job when it came up and had several opportunities to work on projects. Evidence is key so start collecting. Good luck.

For the most part, a PIP is just a plan to manage you out of the business. You can't refuse to be placed on a PIP although you have the right to appeal any formal warnings/dismissal that comes out of it. However, if I was you, I would begin looking for another job.

However, I was a process person, brought in to facilitate processes between internal and the external company they were using as a facilitation in the water industry. I was basically left without direction and work even when I repeatedly asked for it.

@IIlolamay I am not sure I understand why if you had a job to do (facilitate processes) that that should disappear once you got a new manager? Surely you just do more of the same?

OP's situation sounds similar in that she has to keep asking her manager for work.

If that is the case, and no work is forthcoming, then that the role is redundant surely.

Because part of being a manager is working out what needs to be done ( usually). I'm a manager and I literally make it up as I go along every single day, using my noggin and checking in with my boss / others if I'm unsure but if I was constantly asking what to do or how to do it I'd have been binned a long time ago. I thrive in those kind of environments but for others it may not be their thing. I do think it goes with thd territory the more senior you go. Ofc we have no idea if OP is a manager or what the culture is like where she works.

Formal PIPS in this way seem to have come in since I retired, but I assume that there is some sort of joint process involved in setting out the goals? If possible ensure that HR is part of this process and ensure you take the evidence that shows that a) you haven't been given work, b) that you've asked for feedback and haven't received it (if necessary take contemporaneous notes, if you have them) c) what feedback you have had hasn't been substantive and hasn't been clear on what you need to do to improve and d), most importantly, that it appears to be directly related to your return from maternity leave. Join a union if you can to help with representation. Take evidence of previous good performance. If you're happy to leave see what exit package they can offer you. Good luck.

true,

@MrsBennetsPoorNerves thanks for explaining. What you said makes complete sense.

I agree with 'bring it on'. If you as manager have gone through the trouble to do a PIP, it is to give the employee a chance and then move to get rid if they don't co-operate with the process. What manager would take a life shortening action to improve performance that still resulted in the employee being paid off if they did not.

You are taking on more work for yourself in doing the PIP by crossing your 't's and dotting your 'i's legally in order to save the company money.

Paying someone off would only encourage chancers. I imagine it is why some companies fight all non-meritorious employment tribunal cases.

When I manage this process I'll work with the line manager to identify the performance gaps and then facilitate a conversation between the manager and employee to explore and look at how the performance gaps can be addressed and improvements identified.
Manager can identify what needs to improve, employee and manager should identify how. If extra training or support is needed this us also identified in the plan meeting.

I'd advise both parties to gather evidence on what's been done/ outcomes/ feedback etc throughout the Pip. Manager has final say on whether objectives have been met buy employee should have an input into that decision.

Is this professional services by any chance? It sounds very familiar. I’ve seen many people (women) be pushed out this way.

ime there is no coming back from it so get some applications out.

It does sound like it could be professional services to the extent that someone who is experienced but not partner level does not generate their own work and has to be fed to justify their existence (targets).

#blueshoes You would have thought it would have been more of the same. However, she told me she didn't understand what a process person did and started sending me admin work eg she sent me a document that had track changes on it and asked me to remove them as she didn't know how. I found I was increasingly sidelined and she stopped including me in meetings and, basically, sidelined the process part of the project. When it came to review time my line manager had been told by her to mark me at the lowest score possible. Fortunately I had the review from my previous role where I managed the QHSE team and successfully gained QHSE certification. There was an HR person on the team who suggested I should think about going on sick leave because of my mental health. That's when I started collecting evidence and looking for another job. I moved to a different part of the organisation within a matter of months

OP I had a similar situation when I returned from maternity in the sense I got given no work then the manager tried to put me on a PIP. I raised a complaint over sex discrimination with HR and they agreed it was and dealt with it. I was literally begging for work, bored out of my brain and the little work I did get given was mind numbing.

@Fundays12 that is exactly what has happened. I’ve been given really basic tasks intermittently and regularly asked for proper work. I was senior for 3 years before mat leave and had been there longer before then. Just feels very shitty

Good job you came along to say this as in the 7 pages of the thread no one else had figured that out.

If you've got email evidence of all of this, I'd raise a sex discrimination case with HR. Advising it's not a grievance yet, but you want this sorting.

I would factually lay out the timeline for it.
eg returned to work on x
asked for work y
state prior to maternity leave you were covering projects of x level, now being ignored on being given projects and asked to do z tasks.
Attach the emails in order.
Give evidence you have asked for feedback on each task you've been given and completed. Attach evidence from others where they have given positive feedback.

At this point you've got not a lot to lose, so I'd fight fire with fire (so long as I had evidence).

I've been at one company for over 25 years. Had a pants manager, we are supposed to have clear objectives set at specific points in the year, he was useless and didn't, nor did he do regular reviews and document them. I asked several times on email, but to be fair didn't really push. but did (luckily) have an email trail that showed I'd tried. That Nov redundancies were announced and if it goes to formal, they review your performance based on objectives. He sat me down in Dec and told me I'd failed my objectives that year, and I was being marked down (his mates though all got marked up!). I emailed HR and him, stating it wasn't a grievance as yet, but I'd had no formal objectives throughout the year despite me asking, nor formal reviews and I had evidence that I had tried at least half a dozen times, as such I was not accepting the lower grade at year end, as I'd not been told once there was an issue. HR agreed with me and I received a "good" PDR and rating in line with what I expected that year.
Sometimes managers are just crap and if you have evidence to support your cause I would raise it.

Good job you're here with all your sage advice and sarcasm! At least youve made sure my contribution isn't the least useful on here 👍

If you feel this is linked to your mat leave then it might be worth getting in touch with Pregnant Then Screwed https://pregnantthenscrewed.com. Good luck OP.