Can I refuse to go on a PIP if I don’t agree with it?

[Gamecha]

Do I have any rights? I feel like this has come out of the blue and absolutely do not feel it is justified. Can I do anything?

Managers can and do use this as a means to getting rid of someone whose face doesn’t fit. It doesn’t necessarily mean the person is a bad employee

I’d be looking for a new job asap. I always think if an employer liked / wanted to keep an employee, they would have tried to help them rather than just sticking them on a PIP.

I’ve been there OP and I didn’t agree with the informal PIP but we still went through the process. The workload was insane, I was doing around 2 hours a day unpaid overtime just to get through the workload.

I was put on an informal PIP and we had weekly meetings. First meeting I was told I hadn’t done ABC, made sure for the next week I nailed ABC, had the next meeting, I wasn’t doing DEF enough, ABC wasn’t mentioned. So for the next week I nailed ABCDEF, the next week meeting I wasn’t doing GHI well enough, no mention of ABCDEF. Killing myself to make sure I covered everything while they piled even more work on me. Even if I did 5 hours a day overtime I couldn’t keep up.

At the final meeting it went like this

them - you are still behind with your workload so we are going on a formal pip
me - don’t bother, here’s my resignation stick your job up your arse then walked out.

i had another job lined up and found out that most staff left or were managed out after 2 years, their staff turnover was horrendous.

start looking for another job, if they want you out they will get you out.

Disagree, I’d say most mangers don’t take this step likely but it depends on the organisational culture, and the moral integrity and reasonableness of the manager themselves.

For example, it’s clearly going to be easier to manage someone out of tik tok than the civil service.

@Wendiej you need to start your own thread.

In my company it isn’t just about performance and meeting targets, it is also about culture and working well with people in a collaborative way. From what I have seen people rarely go on PIP for bad performance but they very often end up like that because they are not fitting with the company or team culture, can’t work with people, are argumentative, sometimes disrespectful and in other words - very difficult to work with. If you are doing your job but nobody wants to work with you and you are being an asshole to people, then that is what will get you on PIP (as a last resort, after your manager would have talked to you and tried to improve the situation). Performance is just the basic expectation and is not always the reason you end up on PIP.

You could raise a grievance against your manager

Do you have reviews where you work? If yes, what do you reviews look like? If you've gotten great feedback here, it'd be difficult to justify a PIP. But if there were areas of concern, not meeting expectations, any warnings etc. and they are proven, you'll probably just have to go with it. It's like innocent til proven guilty - they need to prove why they're letting you go (if it comes to that). And if they don't, that's where you have a case of constructive dismissal. Have you spoken to HR to get a better idea of why this is happening?

If they have put you on a PIP they want you out. Time to start looking for a new role.

One thing I would advise is to get feedback from other people you work with. Ask them to out it in writing (in an email) or even better in the performance management platform if you have one. Gather as much evidence as you can and comments from people not only about your performance but about being great to work with, collaborative, proactive, etc. Bring this to HR. And a PIP can’t happen without HR being involved which means your manager would have brought evidence about whatever the issues are. Do the same for yourself.

@Gamecha As PPs have advised, accept the PIP and try to meet its requirements (assuming the goals are reasonable, measurable and achievable) and/or start looking for another job. You could raise a grievance against your manager if you genuinely think their reasons for wanting to place you on a PIP are disingenuous, however, you haven't said how long you've worked there and if it's been less than two years they could fire you for any reason, so long as it's not discriminatory or for a reason that's "automatically unfair", and if you raise a grievance you may just get fired anyway. Obviously, if you have more than two years continuous service with your employer, you have stronger employment rights, but if the reasons for the PIP are genuine and evidenced by your manager, then you should co-operate with the process and try your best to improve your performance if you want to stay in your job.

Why would he want you gone if you are a good performer? He probably does want you gone. People rarely want a brilliant performer gone. They often want someone gone who is difficult to manage, can't see their own shortcomings, or doesn't cope well with feedback or react to it.

Sometimes it is not just what you do, it is how you do it. For a PIP its likely they have identified specific things you aren't do or specific behaviours that need changing. What are they? Is there a little truth to it?

So it certainly is something that some organisations take lightly. I worked for a blue chip for many years. No issue with performance whatsoever. Had been given Very Good and Good consistently.

BUT - this company had re organisation after re organisation. Managers would stay for 6 months, maybe a year and then there would be another one.

I was caught in a situation where we had a bell curve with regards to performance. My manager who I barely knew and was hopeless was pushed by her manager who I didn’t even know to put me on a PIP. At first I thought it was a joke. My appraisal had been very late anyway and when I asked what the issues were they made up some very minor things like late in claiming expenses. In our organisation it cost £30 in resources to handle an expense claim. My expenses in a month were barely £40. A previous manager had said not to bother if expenses were under £100!

I was a member of a union though.

I WON and the marking was reversed along with the silly comments in the document but it took nearly a year to resolve and it was an upsetting time.

I was never belligerent though. People working with me couldn’t believe what had happened. Was very calm with no waving my arms around or worse crying. Never made it about what other people were doing or saying it wasn’t fair. I did have three face to face meetings with some really senior people handling the claim. What a waste of their time. My line manager was moved to another role anyway (yet another reorganisation) and although I did stay for a few more years and had nothing like that again in the end I took voluntary redundancy.

This company which is a household name has struggled ever since. Perhaps it was because I left…..

You should give them lip service whilst you look for another job

Then you need to raise a grievance

The advantage of a PIP is that you can insist on written, specific, SMART performances targets. Then you can prove you have met them, and he will struggle to dismiss you. If you simply refused a PIP at my work we would move to termination on the grounds of poor performance. So while you can refuse, if your aim is to stay in the job your best option is to agree. If you don’t want to stay you would be best off resigning now.

You can of course appeal against an unfair termination. But I would strongly, strongly advise against it unless you have crystal clear evidence of discrimination against a protected characteristic. “My boss hates me and treats me unfairly” simply will not get you anywhere. If your boss wants you out and has any modicum of HR advice or common snense he will have a long paper trail of your “poor performance”, of which refusing to engage in a PIP would be a very compelling piece of evidence.

PIP can be used, and sadly is, incorrectly as a tool to push people out of a company without having to pay redundancy. Never under estimate how ruthless some firms will be to save a few quid.

What was your last performance rating? If it was good then can they cite why you are no longer performing at that level?

You do have to accept the PIP or else you'll just go to the end of the process. But if you then nail every objective and they still have a problem it's time to seek legal advice. Just make sure you document everything relating to completing the targets set in the PIP via email and print out copies.

Have performance issues been raised in previous appraisals? If so, the company is on stronger ground legally than if nothing was said previously.

My last review said no performance issues, hopefully a pay rise this year etc. So it’s happened after I came back from being off sick. The man doesn’t like me, he’s made comments about my ability to work and be a single parent previously … said in a ‘caring’ way but clearly very judgmental.

I've had a few staff members with performance issues, they generally have left before completing a PIP but the ones I've kept in touch with have done much better in their new jobs. Honestly sometimes the company dynamics just don't work for a person.

We can't tell if you are being bullied out or are blind to your own way of working, but I would think a test would be if you can find enough common ground to actually understand what the perceived problem is. Sometimes you have people who are good at what they do but really resistant to change or progression, for example.

If the company are just trying to manage you out unfairly, polish up your CV and don't look back. If you hold out they will probably offer you a settlement. If you want to stay, you need to communicate.

agree 100%, the hours and bloody hours it takes to do it properly, to do it fairly, the meetings, the note taking, the 100 conversations you've had beforehand to tell them where they need to improve. Not something one does for fun and to get at someone.

A PIP is the beginning of the end. Time to update your CV.

It absolutely is intended to push you out. People rarely "improve" enough to satisfy their employer once they've been put on a PIP. In most cases, I don't think it would be possible, as they've already made the decision to get rid of you by any means necessary. I've seen excellent, highly skilled, hard working employees put on PIPs when their only deficiency was being over age 50. Their manager wanted to replace them with a brand new graduate who could be paid a pittance. Yes, that's illegal, but it still happens frequently, at least in the US (where I live).

To be honest after the last two weeks I’ve had feeling so confused and stressed I would take a settlement just to be free of this. I have bills to pay though so can’t just leave without a settlement or a new job