Can I refuse to go on a PIP if I don’t agree with it?

[Gamecha]

Do I have any rights? I feel like this has come out of the blue and absolutely do not feel it is justified. Can I do anything?

Pointless advice. Unions won’t advise on pre existing issues.

This. In my experience, it doesn’t matter how unjust and unreasonable it is, they will force you out.
I wouldn’t fight it as you will end up getting stressed about it and it won’t change the outcome.

@MushMonster this is misinformed advice. As PP days a new union won’t take on a pre existing issue such as this

I have an employee who is on a PIP. He just won't accept the feedback for what it is.

He even asked to have direct feedback from key stakeholders as he didn't believe me that the feedback I'd given him was accurate (and was going around telling people I was on a "witch hunt"). So I set up meetings with various people individually and he and I both sat there while they gave him the same feedback. Do you think he accepted then that he had a performance issue? No he bloody didn't!

He seems to think I have something against him, I absolutely don't but his inability to do his job is impacting the whole team so I have to deal with it, even though it's taking me a huge amount of time and energy to performance manage him.

I would ask yourself if you really want to go through with this, especially if your manager doesn't think you're doing a good job. Why would you want to persist in staying? In your shoes I would accept the PIP then start looking for another role to move onto as quickly as possible.

I’ve repeatedly asked for work since returning from maternity leave and been given very little. Despite being told it’s not my job to find work and that I didn’t need to worry about that.

I’ve asked for feedback on various things and often he doesn’t respond at all. When he does he changes details that are insignificant. For example changing a sentence that says the same thing in a different way.

All of this has meant I have struggled to know where I’m at or what he expects. I have a long service at this place well before him and I resent the prospect of leaving because he’s decided to treat me like this

My employee disagreed with everything in her PIP, it was watered down somewhat also as to have been 100% honest about her ability would have been devastating to her and I didnt want that. I truly wanted her to achieve her targets but she basically blamed everything on everyone else, including me, and took no responsibility at all for it, so therefore she didnt improve, and eventually ended up with formal warnings etc.

If you are able to meet the targets they set you and you have a decent HR dept then no reason it has to be the beginning of the end but clearly I am in the minority here.

Maternity or sick leave?

I’ve been in a semi similar position, I was put on a PIP by the worst managers I have known in my entire career who weren’t even based in the same office as me, and all the points were ‘I believe Meg does not x, I feel Meg does x’ so I argued every point I didn’t agree with and had some removed. The management of the PIP involved a new starter who was (shock) based in the same office as me, she actually watched me do my job, wrote down the things I did (and I didn’t change a single thing!) and I passed it. It’s a shitty situation to be in and I’m sorry it’s happening to you x

I’m think the last point is key.

Im in a similar position in that I have long service and now I’m dealing with a manager who basically sends me a daily criticism usually in the morning. I work in a department where we are all qualified professionals but she isn’t and I think that has something to do with it, Im dealing with her ego on some level. I haven’t quite figured her out. But I have a sense there is something more to it.

If she put me on a PR I’d know in my hearts of hearts it wouldn’t be for the right reasons. Proving it though is difficult.

I totally agree with @CloudSquirrel (& she has my sympathies) - managing someone on a PIP process is a nightmare, and unlikely to be something a manager enters into lightly.
If you are convinced that your performance is of a high standard, why are you so concerned?
Everything around your performance will be documented - if you've been there more than 2 years and fail the PIP, you'll have written evidence to take your employer to a tribunal if you think you have been treated unfairly - or you'll learn why your employer is more concerned about your ability/ to do the role than you are.

If you are not in a union, why not join one? - or seek advice from ACAS

This depends entirely on your contract and your company policy. Some companies have an automatic resignation process if you refuse to go on PIPs. If you disagree with it, it depends on what grounds but usually if you have a concern about the moral/ethical validity of it then you can appeal/raise those concerns directly with HR.

ultimately though this is EXTREMELY company specific. And you need to review your contract the company policies and any other information in company. If you’re willing to share the company then someone may be able to give better advice but otherwise this thread is largely pointless.

It's not pointless at all. Yes there may be some variety in how companies approach performance management but there's also a lot of consistency and the same employment law applies everywhere. But what the fuck do I know, it's not like I haven't worked in this profession since the early 00s

“Saying the same thing in a different way” is a perfectly legitimate edit/piece of feedback in many jobs. I’m fascinated by what you could do where you think communicating effectively is insignificant.

Advice for you …
Go along with the PIP, make the suggested changes.

As difficult as it is, just go along with their PIP. If they are expecting you to be disagreeable - you will be doing what you think they want.

Try instead to take control, not by fighting, but by complying. Then you can have a less emotional situation and plan your next career move calmly.

If will be easier for you to get another job if you have one already, if you decide to leave. Please don’t count on a “payout” - it’s a bad idea.

Just take all the emotion out of this situation, is just work and tasks and them giving feedback. Just be zen, get thru it and move someplace better on your own terms.

You sound (understandably) emotional. You need to get over this really quickly.

Evidence and cool thinking are your friend here. You need as much evidence as you can that you are either meeting your objectives, or that your objectives are not specific / measurable.

It is largely irrelevant what you think your colleagues do / don't do as their objectives will be different to yours.

A PIP should have clearly listed why you are deficient, and what you need to do in order to resolve. Make sure you understand what those criteria are. In forensic detail. And make sure it is achievable. All documented and agreed. If this all happens verbally, make sure you take notes and then email it to whoever was present as your notes from the meeting.

I have used the PIP process to buck up the ideas of employees previously. It isn't always a means to manage people out, but I concede it often can be.

You also need to put aside what you think your objectives should be, or what you think you should be doing. The only thing that matters is whether you are delivering what you have been asked to deliver whether you agree with it or not. I only say this as many of the employees I've had on a PIP delivered some fine work, but it wasn't what they had been asked for, or what was needed. They were most disgruntled.

@Bleeky @Softleftpowerstance @HappiestSleeping @hap I suppose what I just can’t understand is how he can have made these vague statements saying he wants improvement and then not actually send me any work bar one task in two weeks? Despite me mentioning it and asking for feedback on a piece of work from a week prior which he still hadn’t commented on.

He said this week that there had been ‘no improvement on what he expected.’ I simply can’t understand how he can say that when I’ve not actually done any work for him. It feels insincere. I am not a junior member of staff and this feels very personal.

I accept there is a chance I am being deluded but it certainly feels real to me.

Is this your direct boss? I think you need very specific feedback from him - you say he is vague - well you need to use this to your advantage ask what he wants differently, better and by when. Then do it. If he wont be specific you need to explain that you cannot improve unless you know exactly what this issues are or go above him. To be honest if you don’t know then it wont improve.

Your boss must be gaslighting you!

you said you do the work ok, whats your friendships like with your co workers are you more of a get along and keep the peace or more go to war ? and the same question but for managers

OP, just contact some Unions.
Here there are posters who know they will not help, but they will, most of them. Most likely you will not get any legal representation from them, but they will offer advice.

It is in your best interest to join one though. Because even if you do go through with PIP, if things get too spikey down the line, then you will have their legal side by you by then.
Citizens advice and other organisations can help you too, with advice on how to proceed and which info you need.

That's what I mean about getting forensic in the detail. He wants improvement. What is it specifically that you didn't do that you had been asked to do? How was it wrong? What was expected? Can he give you an example of what he would have accepted? Can he show you how what he asked for was clear? Can he show you previous examples where your work was acceptable (from your statement, your previous reviews were fine), and how what you are delivering now is different? Can he demonstrate where he communicated what he expected?

That sort of thing.

If you are capable then a pip could be helpful. Manager must give clear and measurable objectives so you’ll know what’s expected, prove yourself and shut him up. Work with the process, make sure you’re happy the objectives are reasonable (you can input into them), agree any training needs and prove you can do it.

also look for another job because you are unlikely to be happy where you are even if you’re successful, it’ll leave a bitter taste. Find somewhere better before they destroy your confidence.

I completely believe you that you’ve had great previous reviews and suddenly your manager has turned. I have seen pip used like this, but also when someone is awful and can’t do the job. It’s hard work for the manager too so make him do that extra paperwork.

Either
Manager wants OP out cos he doesn't like her in which case her goose is cooked and senior management will back him

Or

OP has genuine performance issues and a Pip will identify those and if she can't improve she will be rightly let go.

Either way it makes no sense to be churlish and refuse to do the Pip. If option 1 is correct that's just playing into his hands.

this sounds v dodgy - return from mat leave, no work, no support then pip.

So do you get work from lots of people or just him? You said he hasn’t sent you any in two weeks. Do you have other work to do?

i think you need to keep a diary of the work you sent him, things he changed, times you asked for feedback and he didn’t send any, etc. to build your case.

otherwise I think you should go along with it, ask for feedback, put it in place, see how things go.

Could you talk to HR about the fact that you think this guy wants you out? Does he have enough proof to put you on a PIP?