Did mum do it on purpose?

[AnaMRT]

I would appreciate honest opinions on this. I was planning on going away for a week with my two younger children and my mum. It was to see family I haven’t seen in 7 years and to organise some paperwork. My dad sent a message saying he isn’t sure I should be going away, that it’s not the right time and we will discuss it later as he’s going to work. He was meant to be buying the tickets for mum and myself and kids and I was going to transfer him the money before he purchased them. The way he worded it seemed to imply that he is making the decision for us. For context he has form for convincing my mum not to go back to our home country as he’s got anxiety about flying.

My mum saw the message he sent as she’s in our small WhatsApp group. Then she sent me a private message saying dad said it’s not the right time to go. It got me angry as occasionally he has acted as if he can control my actions and tell me what to do. For context I’m in my 30’s, married with kids. I called her and asked her what’s going on. I then said I feel angry that dad seems to think he can just decide if I get to go or not. He isn’t in charge of my decisions etc… if I want to go I will go and I will purchase the tickets myself. Further context mum always uses her mobile on speakerphone when she’s talking to someone. As I spoke to her for about 15 minutes and occasionally got heated up feeling like I have to justify and convince my dad why it would be a good idea to go etc… she never once mentioned that he’s there listening. I heard something in the background and just got a feeling he was there.

I then said I’ll call dad myself and tell him all this as I’m feeling angry (I’m hormonal as I was up breastfeeding baby all night and period is due as I was in pain). She then said he’s here. He sounded sad in his voice. I told him exactly how I felt in the same tone of voice that I spoke to my mum about him. If I would’ve known he was there I would’ve spoken to him directly and said the same things but in a gentler way. I feel like she did that on purpose. Further context she is always keen to point out mine and the children and my husband’s faults to my dad. I feel like she likes to bond with him that way or to get him on her side. I don’t know exactly why but it’s happened before. The kids do something small and she tells him: See I told you they shouldn’t be allowed to watch this or do that as it’s spoiling them. She’s constantly undermining me etc.. She is very overbearing and controlling. I’ve always made excuses but this really hurt me. What she did felt like what a ‘mean girl’ would do.

I know she knows what she did because in the evening she called and kept asking if I was okay. I said why wouldn’t I be. It’s like she wants attention or to upset me. My dad and I are fine. He came round and we had a talk. I was always a people pleaser and I feel like I have found my voice but every time I explain to her how she likes to take over with the kids etc it falls on death ears. She promises not to do it again but continues to do it. I know if I ask her why she didn’t tell me he was there or say: here speak to your dad yourself she would just say she didn’t think of doing that. I’ve lost all trust in her. She doesn’t have my back and points all my faults to my dad. I’m an only child so I haven’t got anyone else to talk to about this. My husband said I don’t need permission from my dad to go away. Dad has agreed to book the tickets since then. I feel like she did it on purpose but I guess I’ll never know for sure. It’s my fault for saying anything to her I know but I still feel hurt. It feels like she’s trying to ruin our relationships with my dad on purpose. Sorry for the long essay!

It is very enmeshed! I wonder why some parents want to control their children when they are adults. I pray every day that I don’t turn out like that. I want my children to feel a freedom that I never had.

Yes from now I’ll be telling them after I do the planned things. I don’t want any negativity thrown on future plans. My oldest child pushes back now. They know when mum is being unreasonable.

Kindly, OP it sounds like your lives are way too enmeshed. You have your own family now and are a fully formed human being in your own right. Try to pull back a bit and don't rely on them for anything (even if it is a quick loan for convenience). My MIL will offer all sorts of favours etc but we know full well, from bitter experience, that every favour will have to be repaid.

I'm not saying go NC but show them you don't need their permission or input on anything...you've got this!

I have lost all trust in her. I would never do that to my children. I’d want to hold the family together not tear it apart to seem like the “good guy” in any scenario.

Why do you need childcare three days a week if you’re not working? Sorry if I’m getting it wrong or missing something!

I genuinely don’t feel like he would ever do that. If he ever did then we wouldn’t be able to recover from that. He knows how much I want/need to go. Yes that’s a good idea about the speakerphone. I’ll do that!

I don't think it's unreasonable to be worried about that, especially with all the endless problems with planes that seem to be happening lately. The Boeing documentary is an eyeopener about why flight safety is more at risk that it was a few years ago.

Thank you for this! It’s very hard to know who is more controlling! You are right. It could be either manipulating the situation. I’ve seen it over the years in both my parents. If I had to guess I feel like my mum is more manipulative and does things to create a reaction from people around her. She keeps going on at me or dad or my husband or my kids until one of us explodes then we end up apologising. I’m trying now not to react. It’s a reaction she wants. I’ve had a situation recently where my dad tried to take control in front of other people and I didn’t let him. Straight after he apologised sincerely and said he will not do that again. He hasn’t done that thing since. I feel like when he is made aware he listens and changes whereas mum doesn’t have any self awareness whatsoever. She does not change for love nor money!

Even now you're not seeing any fault at all in your father, but are twisting your mum's anxiety and 'controlled-ness' into being her fault.

For my mum it is the anxiety that can control her and she can catastrophise into worse case scenarios. And my Dad isn’t at all controlling (possibly inept but definitely not controlling!)
she did tbf have a breakdown with it when I was young and ended up in hospital so I know it is real

i try to have clear boundaries but it isn’t easy

it is far easier with DD though letting her figure out her boundaries herself

That’s very true! I will look into some therapy. I need to start making changes before it’s too late.

Also think the blame should not all be falling on your mum here. She didn’t tell you your dad was listening in - just like your dad equally didn’t tell you. He could have made his presence known. You don’t know if he told her to put it on speaker phone, he could have a finger to his lip saying “sh” about him listening in. You don’t know, but at very least they are equally responsible for not telling you he was listening.

They look after the kids 3 days a week while I’m at work. I would love to reduce contact to give us all some space but won’t be able to until I either reduce my hours or change jobs.

Time for you to disentangle yourself from your parents relationship. You do not need to discuss anything with your dad if you are an independent adult.

The conversation you had with your mum did not need to happen - she chooses to have a relationship or is stuck in a relationship where she can't make her down decisions. You are not.

She can't go. You make your own decisions on whether you go or not based on that information.

I’m on maternity leave currently. I have to go back to work in the summer and work another 3 months before I can change jobs. I will either reduce my hours or look for another job from September.

That’s a very good point!

When I confront my dad he changes that behaviour toward me and the kids. So improves his behaviour. I don’t know what he’s like with my mum behind closed doors. I can only go by how I’m being treated by them. Dad changes mum does not. Dad could be manipulating me but I haven’t seen it. Mum never changes her behaviour and I’ve had situations where I am literally pleading with her. I’ve seen my mum control my dad by telling him what to eat etc… on the surface she seems to control and manipulate him more. But then comes to me and says he’s convinced her not to go on holiday to her country. So I don’t trust her because she manipulates so
much. If she’s telling the truth I can’t chance anything for her in her marriage. I only confront what I see. I’ve also been the person trying to sort their arguments as a child so I’m done trying to be the peacekeeper in their relationship. It was hard as a child and I have 5 children of my own now so don’t have the headspace or energy to try and help their relationship. I hate that it’s affecting my own kids.

My husband said the same thing. Either could’ve said something but ultimately it’s a lesson for me. I won’t be reacting again and I don’t feel like it’s safe to say anything personal to my mum. I will never speak to her about another person for my own sake and for me not to end up in the same situation again.

You can't complain about your parents being controlling and then give them so much control. You're a grown woman with a family - book your tickets yourself. Saying your dad has time and you are too busy with the children is frankly BS. It takes a minute or two. I'm sure that between you and your husband, you can book a few plane tickets. If your mum wants to go, she can. Dad says it might not be the right time for you to trave, and you cave/get angry etc, instead of just saying that you're going and leave it at that. The whole thing sounds overdramatic, too enmeshed and childish.

They made the suggestion that he books them as he is semi retired and is literally on his laptop for hours searching for deals. There has been many times where I’ve booked tickets for them for shows etc and they’ve given me the money after. This time I took them up on the offer as I’ve got 5 kids including a baby that I breastfeed day and night and had health issues so I’m running around to various appointments. I got angry after seeing their messages saying that we shouldn’t go after it was presented to me as an easy breezy solution for dad to buy them since he’s got so much time. After the 4 kids go to bed I clean the house with my husband, prep bags for school then literally crash and breastfeed through the night. I’m like a zombie. If someone offers to take some load off at the moment I take them up on their offer. Now that I know it can give them power to decide I know not to do it again. I’ll book it all myself.

I did call my mum after the messages were sent to tell her exactly that. That I’m still going and that dad doesn’t get to decide that for me. I called her because 30 minutes before I called her my dad said he can’t talk as he’s going to work. So I called my mum to ask what’s going on. Didn’t think I could speak to dad as he said he couldn’t talk and was off to work. It turns out he was still there listening to the conversation that was on loud speaker. My mum let me go on for about 15 minutes until I said I’ll call him myself and tell him how I feel. Only then did she say he’s right here. It felt like it was all arranged on purpose.

All I am looking for is a peaceful life. I’m always there strong for the kids and their emotional wellbeing. When the kids have an emotional outburst she has one too so I’m putting out fires constantly. I’m teaching them emotional regulation while also teaching her. I’m tired! I can take it from the kids but I shouldn’t also have to take it from my parents. So this is why I’m so frustrated by this circus and drama created by mum (and dad). She is always manipulating and exaggerating and creating drama. This time I was sucked in to it unfortunately.

Book your own tickets - it is a pain in the arse especially when someone is offering to do it for you but it will prevent interference. Your dad sounds like his issue is with your mum going rather than you because he doesn't want to fly. Your mum didn't let you know he was listening so you could run interference for her instead of telling him herself she was going.
I can understand if you knew he was there you might have put your point more politely rather than how you might letting off steam to your mum privately. In future I would assume you are on loud speaker.

Your dad seems sorted now you have confronted him. Unless he bullies your mum I would let her deal with him herself. She can visit family too but she doesn't have to go the exact same time as you

Sadly that's a massive issue nowadays. Still worth working towards that for the future 🙏