Anyone else unhappy with their child’s primary?

[ChilliLips]

I’m a bit stuck. DD is in year 2. The school itself is fine - lots of outdoor space, nice teachers. But the classroom itself is somewhat chaotic - 1 teacher and 3 one-to-ones, severe behavioural issues in a few of the kids, half of the class are significantly behind which they’re struggling to cope with. DD is very able but I feel left to sort of drift as she doesn’t ‘need’ attention, I do understand that objectively. I met with the head because one of the children was repeatedly attacking her, only to be told they have no money and are wrangling with a large number of kids with significant delays in their learning and there’s only so much they can do. It was very honest I suppose, but he basically just told me she’s in the wrong setting.

I’m not convinced the other local state primaries are any better, from what I’ve heard. I’m getting a significant pay rise in 18 months so am considering sending her to the local prep but it feels like a last resort, as I never wanted to go down the private route. I also have a toddler who would need the same treatment. I’m also reluctant to take her away from friends unless I’m sure it’s the right thing.

If you were in this position what did you do? TIA

I want her to take the 11+, and I’m worried another 5 years in a chaotic classroom with routine behaviour problems and a big focus on those who are behind (understandably) won’t stand her in good stead to take the test. I’m wondering if a few years of private would be an investment in that if she then passes the test that’ll save me a lot of money!

Will you still be able to save with uni fees and house deposits? Good knows what uni will cost in decade plus time! This is why we are very unlikely to choose private now.

This is unfortunately the state of our schools. Politicians doing nothing about it! It makes me so angry as there are so many children being failed. If you can afford private go private.

I’m wondering if a few years of private would be an investment in that if she then passes the test that’ll save me a lot of money!

preps don't tend to prep for grammars though they prep for private secondary.

The school should also be stretching pupils who perform well, does it not that?

No I don’t think so! Her teacher said ‘DD is brilliant at reading. For that reason during phonics we just let her go to the library - there’s no point her sitting with the other children’

which doesn’t sound like stretching to me. For all I know she could be mucking about in there and not even reading.

Yes that should be fine, we should be able to contribute to both if needed.

Would your money be better spent on a tutor a couple times a week with extension work?
Have you asked school for extension work? Or online programmes she could do while they are doing phonics?

That doesn't sound right, they should support the dc who are behind & push the more capable dc. Eg one of mine had phonic intervention for 3 years as he really struggled and the eldest has had extra maths classes & additional english work as they are GD.

I did consider this and it’s still an option. Obviously my worries are mainly focussed around learning but if I’m being brutally honest, I’ve noticed a deterioration in her behaviour after spending time with these kids (please don’t flame me!). Shes also regularly hit, spat at etc by some of them. I’m not sure I want this to be half her education if I’m honest.

Yes DD is GD across the board (or her teacher said she would be if graded but they’re not quite at that age yet, so not officially). But no - no extra work in this case.

Where abouts are you that still does the 11+?
Having just done a practice 11+ with DD1 today and looked at the type of questions, sucess isn't really dependent on teaching quality, it's very specific in the type of questions. My feeling from looking at it and speaking with various teachers is that more children pass the 11+ from private because of a combination of more invested parents on average, and because independents are allowed to prep children for the 11+, state are not.

A bright child with parents who are very engaged and pay for tutoring through years 4 and 5 (approx 2k in year 4, 3k+ in year 5) is as likely to pass as a private school child I think.

I do understand why you wouldn't want a dc in that environment but I would look at other state options first. Like I said I think all the way through is expensive & tight even on 170k because you have 2 dc but you know your lifestyle best & how much sacrifice you want to make. Good luck!

Round us the preps definitely prep for grammer, they publish numbers passing the 11+ on their website/adverts. The grammers are as good or better than most of the local private options, private secondary is seen as option for those who didn't quite make the 11+, it's the back up plan rather than the 1st choice

Yes I did the 11+ myself from an ordinary state primary and passed - but what was an ordinary primary back then is a bit different to now sadly. We’re in the SW, are you?

A bright child with parents who are very engaged and pay for tutoring through years 4 and 5 (approx 2k in year 4, 3k+ in year 5) is as likely to pass as a private school child I think.

Certainly for the grammars near me (London) the competition & pressure is intense. I know
loads of bright dc who don't pass (many get into private) & I don't think I will be trying for my eldest. They are bright but not genius.

@Bushmillsbabe must be location specific

State primaries do tend to have some more challenging cohorts and it is the luck of the draw whether your child is in a challenging cohort. Combine that with some state primaries discouraging applications from children with SEND, resulting in more welcoming ones becoming SEND magnet schools and you end up with some schools being overwhelmed. I think that is to the detriment of all of the children, but those most at risk of not meeting their potential are the most able and those with mild SEND who get missed.

We moved DD2 to a prep school and the difference that 4x the funding makes is very clear. She wasn't in a disrupted cohort at her state school, but has a combination of SEND and ability that means that a smaller class and more teacher time will make a difference to her. She is also far less bored. I'm sad for DD1 that we didn't do the same for her. I think primary school was rather boring for her. We got her tutored and she got into the secondary we wanted, but that wasn't an ideal path.

Our state primary is exactly the same - all attention geared toward the struggling students and none left for the able students. We're moving next to an outstanding primary to get DCs in because could never afford private and they're not getting any attention at all, let alone being stretched, where they are

We are Buckinghamshire. I didn't do the 11+ as grew up in a non grammar area, but did take entry test for private. The 11+ is much harder than the test I took, and my friend is deputy at a prestigious private and agrees is much harder than their test.

I do appreciate your concern, my girls go to a lovely state primary in a fairly affluent village, but they still have their fair share of behavioural challenges. Ours stream to an extent from year 4 onwards, and divide 2 classes of 30 into 3 classes of 20, so the teaching can be more tailored to children's needs and abilities, and my daughter has really thrived this year in a calmer more focused environment, it makes such a difference.

Go private if you can. Your don't want your children to be part of some kind of social experiment. Get her out of that environment asap!

We are in a similar position. I've 3 children, the oldest is in Y8 so a couple of years out of our local primary. His experience was mostly ok and we were happy enough with his experience, our middle is Y6 and from last year we've noticed a big drop off in the overall performance of the school, huge increase in SEN (not complaining but obviously it has an effect on the class when it's a large amount of children) but because he was close to finishing we've stuck it out with some additional tutoring. My youngest is Y3 and we're currently visiting preps as the situation just seems to be getting worse. Our oldest is in private, with the middle following next year, we had really planned only paying for seniors but we're concerned enough that we're moving things forward for the youngest.

Seems to be a similar story with all the state primaries in our area. I remember when looking for the eldest I really felt spoilt for choice with four strong options (Ofsted and recommendations), totally different now with the biggest issue seeming to be an overwhelming rise in SEN and either not enough support in the classroom or specialist places.

Sorry if I've missed that, but did you confirm if the £110k salary is net or not?

Personally I'd give it a little longer as it is quite early days to see how things settle. I also suppose it depends if you believe that private will definitely be better? I'm not sure I agree that that is always true.

You are right though that the number of children with SEN/behavioural difficulties is increasing, yet the funding just isn't there to support them. I do think all children deserve to learn, but inclusion at all costs seems to have a negative impact on a good number of learners. We are also in SW and really like dd's school, but I don't know how the teachers manage with the numbers of children needing various different types of support. I don't know what the answer is there, probably just decent funding and even an understanding that for some children mainstream schools just aren't the best place for the child and more spaces available at places with alternative provision.

No I didn't particularly like DD's primary. We lived on the edges of a deprived area, and there was behaviour challenges and children not getting support for learning at home (and this was back in the 2000s). DD was also academically behind but not a lot of academic support for her. However, we couldn't afford to move or send private but we paid for private tutoring in Y5 AND Y6. DD went to a good state secondary.

Instead of going private for prep, would tutoring be an option? I'm not sure I would take the risk for prep on those wages with two dc. Instead, I would save for secondary.

Unfortunately many parents have to suck up a sub standard primary education. No fault of the teachers might I add, just lack of funding.

I’m in a similar position and am about to pull my two primary aged children out of their state school and send them privately.

It’s been a hard decision as was never the plan financially but there has been a significant change in behaviour at the school recently. The violence and language they have been exposed to is quite shocking really.

Academically, their teachers don’t have the capacity to stretch them as there are a lot of children with behavioural issues or SEN needs that don’t have additional support. The teachers seem to have an almost impossible task on their hands.

I’m not happy with my DD’s Junior school, the infant feeder school was amazing but this school is not good. I can’t afford private though.