To think our quality of life can’t keep going up forever?

[Wildflowers99]

I saw a post on a thread which said if you have 3 children (for example) you NEED 4 bedrooms, because children sharing a room is unacceptable in terms of their quality of life. And another saying being able to eat things like peppers out of season is essentially a right, and therefore they should have a price cap.

It got me thinking because what we expect as a basic quality of life seems very very different to even 50 years ago. But the problem is with the advent of climate change, cost of living, ageing population and so on, is it realistic for expectations to keep going up? Have we now reached a point where our quality of life will have to plateau or even reverse a bit because the economy and world cannot support what we have come to expect?

Hope that makes sense, I’m a bit zombified after a 5am start with my toddler…

Since 2018 there’s been compulsory employer pension contributions so by 2063 all people that have worked since then will have 45 years of private pension contributions.
They will be the first cohort
So that’s all sorted within 100 years at least.

I listened to that podcast ‘leading’ where they interviewed an ex head of MI5. When asked what she saw being one of the biggest problems in the coming years she said if you think immigration is bad now just wait until large areas of the world become uninhabitable.

You're being pedantic.
My MC parents had a house i grew up in with no central heating and no heating at all in bedrooms, no fitted carpets bookcases made out of bricks and planks, we ate meat and two (UK) veg - with a a carby pudding with custard on a Sunday only.* Snacks? Nope. Fruit or a slice of bread. Two pairs of shoes. A bath once a week because it cost to heat the water.*

I'm not being pedantic, your experience doesn't speak for all. I grew up with central heating in the 80s (it became common in homes from the 70s onwards). And we had shelves instead of bricks & planks, I mean Ikea opened up in the late 80s...

The one that gets me is cars- two cars per household and both are less than 5 years old, 25k+ owned by people who earn 25-35k!

The whole leasing process for cars is the biggest scam ever, enabling people to drive cars they will never own because they could never afford to buy them. I replaced my car in December, 3 years old, £10k and bought outright. Could have leased a shiny, new prestige marque with all the bells and whistles, adding £3/400 to my monthly bills - for something to get me from A to B.

Yes but a perm every 6 weeks by a home or street corner type hairdresser (and I don't think it was that often at all anyway) is different to going to a trendy salon EVERY weekend when you go out for a curly blow or whatever, and expensive highlights.

Re getting food out when on a day out. We were on a budget when my kids were little (about 15 years ago)and so if we went out for the day we'd take a packed lunch and flask of tea/coffee. We did go out fairly regularly at weekends as a family as we had National Trust membership (I used my Christmas money from my parents or aunties etc) but often it was just to a local park as petrol costs had to be factored in too.

What astounds me now is the sheer amount of days out that families appear to do and post on social media about which involve spending money on things like entrance fees. Some families have whole month long calendar of events that they post about on their FB at Christmas. Pantos, lantern parades, grottos, reindeer farms, cinema trips, it is all VERY spendy.

What are you saying? The older people who have paid in for the National Health Service and taxes all of their working lives no longer get the chance to actually access the benefit, when they finally need it. Sounds like it to me. Jog off. My mum is 90 tomorrow. Her drug bill might be more than either yours or mine. But she's had private health care for decades & more decades. Paid for privately, despite being a teacher. So the cost to the NHS and to social service Adult care for my mum has been relatively minimal, as she has paid for this. She now needs that help. I am categorically expecting the state to support her together with her own contribution. I hope she does another 10 years!!

Yeah quite frankly I do think we should realign expectations about health care. In the past, old people died. Today? We spend a fortune on keeping people alive.

I can't see that being popular though.

What often strikes me is that these "luxury" things, like gel nails, or over-seas holidays, or even two cars, are not things that seem to have made society happier overall. I suspect if they went away we'd soon find most weren't missed much. Some might make people happier if they were no longer available, after the initial period of getting used to it.

The things that seem to make the biggest difference are better basic health care, access to education, and certain labour saving devices like the washing machine which relieved us from a really heavy, difficult, and time-consuming task that was often very physically demanding.

I shared a room with my sister, and we were in our early 20s. Sharing is fine when you are little, but as you grow up into teens and beyond.. it can be awful. I was regularly shut out our bedroom because my sister had a boyfriend round. And don't get me started on her getting a measuring tape to measure exactly what wall space I could have for my posters. Then she moaned about waking up and seeing Star Trek characters on the wall.

Life 50 years ago is so much different now. We now have loads of extra demands, and I don't think tech like phones are really a luxury anymore, same with having internet. Having internet at home is pretty much as vital as gas/electric now.

And for people on low incomes, their quality of life is not great anyway, and their is no room to cut back on things when you have nothing left after paying the essentials.

I agree but that was my early years in the 60s and 70s. Except we didn’t have a car and in fact there was only one family on our street that did…..we all thought they were very posh.

I don’t think people are necessarily worse off, just that they desire more and hence need more money to fund that. Hence it feels like they are

What are you saying? The older people who have paid in for the National Health Service and taxes all of their working lives no longer get the chance to actually access the benefit, when they finally need it. Sounds like it to me. Jog off.

@socialdilemmawhattodo

what do you think I am saying, think logically about the demographics. Unfortunately taxes are paid forward, there is no pot set aside for me or you. Why do you think pension age has moved out? why are there discussions to move it out further?

I am categorically expecting the state to support her together with her own contribution. I hope she does another 10 years!!

That's the unsustainable bit, again it's just basic maths when the pyramid is no longer a pyramid.

Perhaps the below helps you understand a bit better? In the 60s we had 5 workers to 1 pensioner, now it's 3:1 & not far off 2:1.

Ultimately I think there will be a change in terms of what is expected as basic care. It's not sustainable as it is.

We’re a young family as in only been married for a couple of years, have a toddler and another on the way. Myself and DH made a decision that we would only have children that we could afford. Which is something we discuss regularly ‘how many can we afford/what we need to budget for’.

It does seem irresponsible to choose to bring children into this world knowing that we wouldn’t be able to afford to take them on holiday holidays in this country are bloody expensive too.

I feel I want to give my DC more opportunities than I had. After school clubs were free back then, football was 50p, I used to go ice skating nearly every week with my friends, we’d go to the seaside a few times a year for the day… Both of my parents had a car, dad drove the ‘family car’ whilst mum, like many others had a little ‘run around’.

We both come from families of three, and in ideal world we’d have three ourselves but that would mean getting a bigger car as you can’t get three car seats in the average car these days.

One hand I keep reminding myself that we’re a young family, that my parents didn’t have two cars on the road when they were first starting out. But I feel like we’re judged for only having one car, and when DH is at work we get the bus.

I feel like I’m living as a student again, cutting my own hair, padding out meals, grateful for handy downs. But, just like a uni student I know this time of life won’t be forever. One day me and DH will look back on these days and laugh what we did to try to save money. We will hopefully have our three kids, but we’ll just have to cut our cloth accordingly.

It's terrifying.

They must have already computer modelled what the worst case scenarios could be.

I'd like to know what they predict.

It might be the UK that are the next set of refugees.
When the gulf stream collapses we will be locked in ice most of the year.
There's no way we'll function, even 2 days of snow brings the UK to a grinding halt. And if fuel is unaffordable . . . .

Yep, we've just replaced our 11-year-old 100,000 miles on the clock car that we've had for seven years (only because we were spending a fortune on repairs!) with a four-year-old £9k one.

We're a family of four and we cope with one car. We live semi-rurally but still have trains and buses.

Sorry, whose standard of living is going up?

Ultimately I think there will be a change in terms of what is expected as basic care. It's not sustainable as it is

I think it will just happen by stealth. Some older relatives in their 90s were determined to stay in their home to see out their days. The carers offered by the LA were awful, inconsistent, didn't turn up etc. They funded private carers, cost over 6 figures but they were content. I also know 3 older people who have gone private for operations as the waiting list was too long.

But, just like a uni student I know this time of life won’t be forever. One day me and DH will look back on these days and laugh what we did to try to save money. We will hopefully have our three kids, but we’ll just have to cut our cloth accordingly.

I think an element of hope has been lost though as I think many feel they will always be cutting back. I'm bracing myself for more tax rises personally

@Strappyshoe, When you say 'they funded private carers, cost over 6 figures but they were content,' do you mean you know people paying more than £100,000 a year for private carers?

With 2 children you need 4 bedrooms.

Don't have 3 children unless rich.

I expect the low hanging fruit will go first, things that probably should never have been considered basic care.

I suspect mental health issues will become much less covered, some will remain but it's going to be very serious issues. Others will be expected to figure out how to get along.

Some kinds of testing and screening may be eliminated if there isn't a clear statistical/cost benefit.

There could be some changes in costs where certain things become cheaper to access privately because more are doing it.

But our concept of "basic health care" is far wider than it was when socialized care first became a thing and we will find that we have to pull back on that. Normal life things, like ageing, or menopause, etc, were not considered "bad health' as such. Just normal life cycles.

@ScribblingPixie It was for more than a year & 2 carers

As an Indian I really don't know what you mean

Thanks. So much money in order to feel secure.

@ScribblingPixie they would have been looking at 70k plus each a yr in a home & were dead against it. Fortunately they had the means to live out their days how they wanted.