To think our quality of life can’t keep going up forever?

[Wildflowers99]

I saw a post on a thread which said if you have 3 children (for example) you NEED 4 bedrooms, because children sharing a room is unacceptable in terms of their quality of life. And another saying being able to eat things like peppers out of season is essentially a right, and therefore they should have a price cap.

It got me thinking because what we expect as a basic quality of life seems very very different to even 50 years ago. But the problem is with the advent of climate change, cost of living, ageing population and so on, is it realistic for expectations to keep going up? Have we now reached a point where our quality of life will have to plateau or even reverse a bit because the economy and world cannot support what we have come to expect?

Hope that makes sense, I’m a bit zombified after a 5am start with my toddler…

No, but I bet some (not all) of the people moaning about the cost of living have them. And takeaways, meals out, television subscriptions, pets, holidays abroad, hair and nails done regularly, etc.

Even kids' parties! Used to be a few kids at your house or a hall with party games and a few sandwiches and crisps. Pushing the boat out was a McDonald's party 😅 Now the McDonald's is just a side to the trampolining, inflatables, etc.

As a PP says, consumerism and discretional spending has sky-rocketed in the last few decades.

But the size of the dwellings has increased as people extend them. The change in M2 per head available over time is not huge, certainly not enough to account for the massive change in house prices relative to earnings. That is due to the rich buying up assets. Please consider watching the video I shared.

I'm all in favour of building houses btw, but I don't think that alone will solve the problem as they will just be bought up by the rich.

And for a long time food was the largest part of most people's spending, even what would be the equivalent of the middle classes now.

I think about this whenever we complain about food prices - and it's not that I don't feel the pinch too - but we are still in an era of historically low food costs.

There was kind of a peak in the late 20th century. My mum, growing up in a family that was on the border between working and middle class in the mid-20th century, was in a very different position. Few people went to university, Houses relatively cheap. Food cheaper than it had been, but people were still cooking at home. Eating out was rare - maybe once a year, and there were few imported foods. Families might have one car, one TV, and a few radios (some did not have a car.) No over-seas holidays, trips were car trips or train trips and involved staying with a relative in many cases.

My mum's grandparents would have been spending almost half their income on food.

When people say that we are so much worse off I can't help but take it with a grain of salt.

You're being pedantic.
My MC parents had a house i grew up in with no central heating and no heating at all in bedrooms, no fitted carpets bookcases made out of bricks and planks, we ate meat and two (UK) veg - with a a carby pudding with custard on a Sunday only. Snacks? Nope. Fruit or a slice of bread.
Two pairs of shoes. A bath once a week because it cost to heat the water.

I get you and totally agree. And yet people think their happiness is wealth related and keep chasing an unending string to obtain more. In my words there's always a bigger boat and you need to find contentment in the one you have.

It's unthinkable to me now, and I'm not on not much more than minimum wage. I think I'm becoming unusual though, I'm in my 50s and work with quite a few young women in their 20s, some on more money than others, but quite a few of them on less money than me. I'd say most get their nails done, they use expensive brands of makeup, always seem to have new outfits, and always seem to be buying new ones. One or two always plead poverty, never put into leaving or birthday collections etc, but yet can always find money for things like expensive nights out. A couple of them live with parents or grandparents as I guess it's cheaper for them to maintain that lifestyle that way, whereas if they moved into their own studio flat or something their money would just be going on bills instead.

What I've noticed is that the normalisiation amongst that age group at my workplace of spending on expensive non-essentials has kind of spread to some colleagues my age. So if we arrange to go on a normal night out there are colleagues my age who always have to buy a new outfit for the night, get their hair blow dried at a salon, book a makeup artist, get their nails done etc. Absolute madness if you ask me.

Absolutely this.

"Live a modern life" you mean "live a western-world life"

I know it’s one small issue but takeaway coffees - the amount I spend on them 🫣 I was a teenager in the early 2000s and coffee shops barely existed - I don’t remember anyone buying 3 takeaway coffees per week at £3.50 a pop??

Things aren’t made to last because of planned obsolescence. I’m sending this message from an iPhone that is six years old. In a couple of years’ time, Apple will stop supporting its software and I’ll have to get a new one. I’m annoyed enough about this that it won’t be another iPhone.

It’s impossible to quantify if people are more materialistic though. Like people moan young people always want new phones, well when TVs were new plenty of people went out and got them. Women have always spent money on having their hair done. My mum and Gran used to go for perms every 6 weeks … was that materialistic too?

I mean you go out on a nice day and there are plenty of people at the park or beach. National trust places are rammed (yes it costs a membership but if you go regularly it’s not bad value). I think people do appreciate the simple things. Buying food out is either convenience or a treat. If you work 40 hours a week what’s wrong with wanting a day off cooking. I just cant get on board with stuff like this being cited as crazy modern expectations.

The point is that several decades ago there was no frivolous money to be spent

Says who?

@Dappy777

Do you not think that Canada (and other countries) all have the same issues? Cost of living, high rents, overcrowded services.. believe me, they do. It's happening everywhere, not just in the UK!

"Something left to enjoy" ... the point imo is that that "something" has expanded beyond imagination, from,say , fish and chips on a Friday, a box of chicks at Xmas and a week in Broadstairs, to eating out at £100 a pop two or three times a month, two weeks abroad plus city breaks, food regardless of seasonality on demand ...

No, but I bet some (not all) of the people moaning about the cost of living have them. And takeaways, meals out, television subscriptions, pets, holidays abroad, hair and nails done regularly, etc.

I've moaned about the increased costs of living but can still afford some of the above. It's not either/or & this thread isn't about cost of living.

20 years ago I was 22… growing up in the 1980s and 1990s I didn’t know any dc who shared a bedroom with their siblings. I was more normal in my parents’ generation but they grew up in the 50s and 60s. We mixed with families who were wealthy with big homes and also friends in 3 bed terraced homes. No siblings sharing. I don’t think 20 years ago it was that common.

No but in the 00s people happily spent £4 a day on 20 cigs and no one batted an eye back then. Now everyone has an issue if you buy one takeaway coffee a day at the same price. Don’t see the issue personally.

"Something left to enjoy" ... the point imo is that that "something" has expanded beyond imagination, from,say , fish and chips on a Friday, a box of chicks at Xmas and a week in Broadstairs, to eating out at £100 a pop two or three times a month, two weeks abroad plus city breaks, food regardless of seasonality on demand ...

You cannot possibly quantify that though. We are a higher income household & we can't spend £300 a month on eating out & have multiple holidays.

I hate to be a fun sponge but I also think we've already reached peak quality of life.

I think we're in for a rapid and steep decline as climate change causes a landslide of fires, floods, droughts, famines, diseases and wars.
The mass movement of people as they exodus from large parts of the planet is going to totally upend life as we know it.

So enjoy what you've currently got while you can.

Soz for that.

Hmm I think we have very different definitions of quality of life. Rates of chronic diseases and mental health disorders have never been so high. Nutritional deficiencies are becoming the norm. Obesity is rife. Fertility is decreasing. Salary vs housing cost is the worst ratio to date.

I’m not convinced being able to buy a bell pepper remedies this.

No but in the 00s people happily spent £4 a day on 20 cigs and no one batted an eye back then. Now everyone has an issue if you buy one takeaway coffee a day at the same price. Don’t see the issue personally.

Exactly, coffee shops just became the new pubs.

This was my wake up call in 1990 when I worked in Poland and realised just how lucky I was to be able to eat the food in the UK that I chose as a vegetarian. That luxury was not available in poland unless you were very wealthy or able to communicate your desire rather than need. PS loved my time there. Total highlight of my career.

I’m not convinced being able to buy a bell pepper remedies this.

😆😆

The one that gets me is cars- two cars per household and both are less than 5 years old, 25k+ owned by people who earn 25-35k! I know they are on finance but it just seems mad. You never see an old banger anymore- remember seeing a blue car with a red door because it was all the scrapyard had 😂

Yeah quite frankly I do think we should realign expectations about health care. In the past, old people died. Today? We spend a fortune on keeping people alive.
People took care of colds coughs and general life ailments at home. Aging? Just part of life.