This UPF thing is irritating me

[SnowMoss]

I've never eaten much UPF, but it is getting harder and harder to avoid it. I don't go the whole 9 yards or anything, but try to keep myself informed and do my best to eat a healthy balanced diet.

Made a good effort to keep an eye on upf's, so for the past year have been sourcing good poultry, fish, and eating it with vegetables, etc. But I am bored out of my mind at this point! Just so fucking bored.

Then I hear about seed oils, so now even the small things that I added, such as mayo, gnocchi, the occasional flatbread (contains only sunflower oil, salt, wheat) are seen as a UPF too, due to the inclusion of sunflower or rapeseed oil. I am happy with and have the time to cook from scratch, but avoiding oils has basically taken a good whack at my time.
It's one thing trying to get people to eat a good diet, with veg and fruit and less processed meats, which will benefit their health, weight and wellbeing, but I am honest to god fed up of eating meat and a pile of veg, even if my own sauces and seasonings suffice.
And no, nothing substitutes for mayo! And no, I really don't want to make my own! I will make my own pesto, coleslaw, stuff like that, but I am bone bloody weary of avoidance.

Surely just being mindful is enough? I get that the food industry is an unregulated cesspit right now, but I am beginning to wonder just how awful it is, in moderation, to eat a some.
Sadly if I google any kind of additive or seed oil, I get lists of 'side effects' such as bloating, calcium loss and so on, it is so depressing.

If you are mindful of UPF's have you found a good balance?

I only use olive oil. I was more concerned about mayo.

I don't disagree with you. I am simply saying that using buzzwords like "inflammation" is actually distracting from your point.
The research into microbiome is exciting but it's important to acknowledge that it is similarly sensationalised. For example, it is much more beneficial for microbiome (as far as we know) to eat a varied diet which is high in fiber than to take probiotics or to cut UPF. There was a lot of hype a few years ago about coca-cola altering microbiome which was sensationalised in the media but in the actual fact this information came from a study which effectively involved pouring cola into a petri dish. Similarly, sensationalism around aspartame was based on a study of mice being fed obscene quantities of it.
I don't understand why we are not advising people to eat more fresh foods and fiber. Actually, I do. You can't sell a book about it. You can absolutely sell a book which demonises seed oil, UPF and advertises author's special diet based on nothing but scaremongering and poor science.

I have often thought that the hype around the biome and inflammation is primarily used to sell you something. I see products in shops that claim to do this or that for the gut, yet science hasn't even settled on it properly yet.

We all know gut biome stuff is important, as is reducing inflammation, so it is easy to bend the science to play on our fears and emotions. In fact I think it is very easy to manipulate people via food, generally.

I hate to break it to you but most ghee & yogurts on the market, even natural yogurts are actually UPF. It's highly, highly unlikely you're 100% UPF free! Even many spices on the market are astonishingly processed with junk added. Same with supposedly decent cheeses. Even milk is marginally processed.

I think you’re confusing “processed in any way at all” with “UPF”. Most natural yogurts are not UPF, nor are spices, and “marginally processed” isn’t an issue. Have a look at the NOVA system, which distinguishes between un-processed, minimally processed, ultra processed etc.

• that was my point lol!. As I said in my post upthread, in the post I c&p’d for a previous thread, I had been responding to someone who said that an ‘Oxford nutrionist’ had told her UPFs wer fine. I was basically mocking her for thinking that an ‘ON’ was a. A thing and b. Necessarily up to date with very recent leaps forward in research.

I agree with you and like fuck would I be giving up mayo. It would have to be prised from my cold, dead hands and one day probably will be.

The best thing for your gut biome is variety, I thought.

By that logic, only using olive oil is not as good as using a variety of vegetable oils, surely.

It is the way it is. Mayo stays.

I don’t understand why either you or @Catza can say with a straight face that the ‘anti-upf’ camp are trying to sell
something when the pro-upf camp - aka the global food industry - demonstrably has SO much to gain by selling processed foods.

It’s nuts ( or rather, Nutella).

It’s not the case that because one thing is good, no other thing is good.

Lots of people on this thread have made the same mistake.

Variety is very important. So is avoiding microbiota- destroying ingredients which are found in UPFs.

No I think you have me mistaken there. I am the one concerned about upf. I largely avoid it apart from mayo and the occasional flatbread. I just don't think the alt-science stuff is trustworthy, either! even if the health authorities haven't caught up yet.
Basically, I really don't know what to think, but I won't find the answers on youtube. Everywhere lies a profit making or personal bias.

I only have the BBC doc (Tulliken sp?) for even remotely legitimate info on this, and even that is watered down for public consumption. However I do think he makes sense. I don't trust corporations and believe that profit has more weight in our society than wellbeing. I hope that clears things up.

Everyone is trying to sell something! Even the BBC doc has his book, like the belated mr moseley.

Just because one party tries to sell you something doesn't mean the other party doesn't. They both profit from our gullibility. They are both wrong.
Again, nobody is profiting form a book called "eat more fiber". It's not sexy. What's sexy is finding a common enemy "One food secret they (government/pharma/food industry) don't want you to know". It's tried and tested and is seen everywhere.

My latest book "Eat everything you like in moderation" will never reach the top ten.

Most of the heart health organisations say seed oils are fine. Have they any money in this game?

I find with most online chat these days you have to pick a 'side to be on'. If you dare to rest curiously in the middle, you are suspect.
I have been accused of having orthorexia AND not caring about UPF's.
Well that's how AIBU rolls I suppose!

Gnocchi is UPF? mashed potato and flour?

According to those who avoid seed oils (not me), then at least my favourite Rana gnocchi is. I guess if you make your own or buy it unflavoured you might be assured of unlimited longevity and happy bowels

I am still interested in finding out more about the oils. It is relatively new to me. Since it's in almost everything not raw, I am all ears.

I personally avoid UPFs without buying anything ‘extra’ at all.

I don’t buy any books. No-one is benefitting from me eating more healthily.

I think you’re insane if you don’t think the modern food industry is morally bankrupt-from the cruelty of industrial animal factories to frankenfoods.

and to be honest, spreading the idea that’s there’s any real equivalence between that industry, whose only motive is the pursuit of shareholder profit — and the odd influencer making some ad money on their wholefood Instagram account is pretty morally bankrupt too.

I don't eat much UPF and try to avoid it, but I don't go all out. If I want a bit of chocolate or the wrong sort of oil, to hell with it. I thought the key thing, anyway, was to take an 80/20 approach, where 80% of your diet was non UPF and also healthy (not the same thing, always).

Hunter & Gather make great mayos with no seed oils - either olive or avocado. Not cheap, mind

Unfortunately, it's not a random influencer. I don't think you realise how much money the "health industry" is making in the US and how unscrupulous some of their tactics are. Paul Saladino, Vince Sant, Dr. Fung, the entire Functional (pseudo)Medicine industry, endless "nutritionist" with their dysbiosis BS, ear seeds as a "treatment" for ME/CFS, vibrating belts, homeopathy, doTerra... I can go on indefinitely. Maybe individually they can't compete with food corporations but collectively these people and companies are fleecing people out of thousands. At least a food product is giving you something for your money. It promises you nothing except to feed you. This specific subset of health and fitness industry is taking your money under the false pretence by misrepresenting the science and, often, their own credentials/expertise.

Something else that irritates me, how most fresh produce in supermarkets comes from overseas when it is actually in season here

Couldn't find a single bloody pear from uk last year.

I hadn't even heard of the term UPF til about 6 months ago and I don't give it a second thought to be honest.

Yes, but Chris van Tulleken's book "Ultra Processed People" is very good, with a satisfying amount of citations- and even authors have to make a living 🤷‍♀️.

Absolutely.

The joke has been for years that everything gives you cancer according to the Daily Mail.

One week it's too much chocolate. Next week it's not enough chocolate.

And one of the issues is selective reading of studies without looking at the quality of the study or for contradictory studies that highlight flaws in another study.

Because people don't understand research and assessing whether it's any good.

They just see the headline and don't take the time to read the caveats.

The universal message is moderation for just about everything.