This UPF thing is irritating me

[SnowMoss]

I've never eaten much UPF, but it is getting harder and harder to avoid it. I don't go the whole 9 yards or anything, but try to keep myself informed and do my best to eat a healthy balanced diet.

Made a good effort to keep an eye on upf's, so for the past year have been sourcing good poultry, fish, and eating it with vegetables, etc. But I am bored out of my mind at this point! Just so fucking bored.

Then I hear about seed oils, so now even the small things that I added, such as mayo, gnocchi, the occasional flatbread (contains only sunflower oil, salt, wheat) are seen as a UPF too, due to the inclusion of sunflower or rapeseed oil. I am happy with and have the time to cook from scratch, but avoiding oils has basically taken a good whack at my time.
It's one thing trying to get people to eat a good diet, with veg and fruit and less processed meats, which will benefit their health, weight and wellbeing, but I am honest to god fed up of eating meat and a pile of veg, even if my own sauces and seasonings suffice.
And no, nothing substitutes for mayo! And no, I really don't want to make my own! I will make my own pesto, coleslaw, stuff like that, but I am bone bloody weary of avoidance.

Surely just being mindful is enough? I get that the food industry is an unregulated cesspit right now, but I am beginning to wonder just how awful it is, in moderation, to eat a some.
Sadly if I google any kind of additive or seed oil, I get lists of 'side effects' such as bloating, calcium loss and so on, it is so depressing.

If you are mindful of UPF's have you found a good balance?

I think you’re overthinking it. 🤷🏻‍♀️
As you say, moderation is the key. If you’re mainly having non upf then the odd spoon of mayo isn’t going to kill you.

I'll probably get lynched for this but I eat what I want when I want it. I'm not overweight, I'm relatively healthy and I feel life is too short to monitor every single thing that goes in my mouth

I think very few people could be 100% UPF free all the time. As with most things, balance is key. If you're eating non-UPFs most of the time it's far healthier than giving up entirely!

We've just started (lol send help 😂) and already hugely feeling the benefits after a few weeks. However I'm absolutely not giving up my fave treats when out and about so my 'deal' with myself is not to bring UPFs into the house, but if I buy them out or are gifted them I'll happily indulge. It's working so far!

Personally I think we have lost our minds over UPF's a bit. It's one of those things where 80-90% of the benefits are likely to be derived from avoiding the worst and most obvious culprits like Wotsits, cheese strings and Fanta if you are eating a load of that sort of stuff.

I wouldn't worry too much about it, it's not a zero sum game. Eating the occasional pre-made flatbread is not the same as eating 80% UPF day in, day out.

Your going down the rabbit hole mtivitamins could be classified as upf same as milk. Just use commone sense like you have been doing

I knew someone would say it, but you know what? I don't think this is overthinking. It sure doesn't take up my day if you see what I mean, it's just something that I've thought about and decided to ask on MN.

People always pathologise MN posts, when in reality most of them are passing thoughts.

That said, I do think it is worthwhile to consider what we eat. And i see many threads who go much further claiming to kill their own cows and never buy anything in a packet ever!

I have tried so hard to make flatbreads and I can NOT do it. I have tried every recipe and method and I have no skill with flour.

What's wrong with seed oils? A huge proportion of the world cooks with seed oils and has done traditionally for many many years.

I wish there was more info out there.
You get the scary details but not the actual ratios that exist in these foods.

So a site will say an emulsifier or additive can have negative health impacts, but they don't tell you to what extent.

So I imagine some have overdosed rats in trials until the rats got sick. Who knows if the sunflower oil in gnocchi is killing me slowly or fast..

what actual harm is the odd supermarket flatbread going to cause you?
life is too short for this

Well I dunno! I have only located this detail recently. It's put rather a bosh on things for me. Apparently they are ok if unrefined, but no brand is using it unrefined! Seriously? I have no idea what is what at this point with food info.

And i see many threads who go much further claiming to kill their own cows and never buy anything in a packet ever!

Really? 😂

Well you are probably right my love, I've never seen anything this wild or neurotic on MN in years, oh golly! Just hold my beer whilst I speed dial my therapist..

There was actually one UPF post last year where someone said they slaughtered their own animals....in suburbia

It takes all sorts of weird industrial processes, including things like solvents, to get a good yield of oil from many seeds. No caveman would, or could, attempt such a thing! Hence they’re UPFs. They’re also very high in Omega-6, rather than Omega- 3.

So avoiding it means avoiding most shop bought stuff. That's a tough order tbh.

You can buy mayonnaise made with 100% avocado oil now in supermarkets, I get mine in my Tesco delivery

I think that the whole UPF conversation tends to leave put how difficult it is to avoid them when they're struggling financially. Yes, you could cook everything from scratch, but what if you work shifts and making bread costs more than buying it and you really do need to have a few evenings of noodle/baked bean type meals to make ends meet?
It's said on here all the time that making food from scratch is cheaper than convenience food, and that is true sometimes of soup/bean casserole. But generally, it is more expensive to eat fresh and non-UPF.

One of the main messages throughout Tim Spector's book on UPFs was not to become to obsessed with it as this in itself was unhealthy. He recommends aiming for 80% non upf and not sweating the small stuff(eg a tablespoon of mayo). I know Chris Van Tullenken says the same.
I know someone who is feeling similarly stressed about feeding her family non upf at all times and it is interfering with her enjoyment of life and causing issues with her children (they are so limited in what they are allowed, they are over interested/obsessed with food at social/family events).
I would try and let things like the flat bread and mayo go and focus on the contents of the majority of your diet.

I think for most people, going for no more than 20% of calories from UPF is much more manageable and will be a big improvement from an average diet - plus better to go for a manageable target than give up entirely became unappealing. Then it's a question of picking what works for you - e.g. I use quorn as it is super convenient for us as a pescatarian family but make wraps and naan (with the help of the bread machine) because they're delicious and worth the faff. Sounds like mayonnaise may be one of the exceptions that makes sense for you.

Nigel Slater's Real Fast Food and Urvadhi Pitre's Roasting tin cookbooks are great for super easy low proceased options with bags of flavour and texture.

There's lots of hype about seed oils and arguments in both directions but I don't think the evidence is sufficiently clear to rule them out. I do try to use cold pressed oils when I can.

My understanding is that's there's nothing wrong with seed oils apart from that were having way too much of them. They're in everything.

If you're not eating much upf then you'll be fine with whatever seed oil you're having.

Palm oil is a different story.

Is beer UPF or…

I think PP had it right. If you’re not eating Wotsits and turkey twizzlers at every meal and washing it down with Sunny Delight, a bought flatbread isn’t going to de-rail you.

Seed oil dissing seems to have exploded on X for whatever reason. I think part of the issue is that they disrupt the balance of Omega 3 versus Omega 6/9 fatty acids in the body. Or something like that, don't quote me 😳

Having said that though, I don't think healthy eating is that complicated in the main. Plenty of fruit, veg, whole grains, healthy protein, natural fats, mostly unprocessed food cooked from scratch. That's most of your bases covered.

I agree with moderation. I gave up refined carbs and trans fats not long ago, except for in moderation. Wholewheat pasta maybe once a fortnight. I feel hugely better for it. Upped white meat and fish, veg and fruit. A cheese sauce is now a very occasional treat. My arthritis has receded, eczema has disappeared.

However, a hand whisked mayonnaise is soothing to make and tastes a zillion themselves better than that from a jar. Go on @SnowMoss give it a go. You may be surprised. It isn't at all difficult.

I could’ve written this @SnowMoss !!
I cannot abandon mayo either! ive not thought about seed oils.. I think you’re right the choices are crap or crapper. Try to take a step back! X