To think tipping is a choice and not mandatory

[Pinkdreams]

I keep seeing posts online about if you can't afford to tip don't eat out, I know this is mainly aimed at America, however it seems people think tipping is mandatory and I don't understand, I don't have an issue with tipping but expecting someone to pay an extra £10 on top of a £50 bill is abit extreme, is it just me who feels this way? I know wait staff don't make a lot in America but shouldn't that be the employers issue?

We eat out a good 2/3 times a month… chain restaurants, pubs and even small cafes are now putting an ‘optional’ service charge on the bill now of 10/20% in some cases.

Now it isn’t mandatory but it’s very awkward to ask for it to be removed/pay less. I don’t earn much more than the minimum wage thanks to that rising and my pay rises being small. I will tip a little for good service but quite often not the suggested amount on the receipt.

I'm the kind of person who wants the most basic of service. Get my order, bring my food and don't ask me how the food is while I'm chewing. I can't wait for robot waiters and be done with the tipping nonsense.

I used to tip hairdressers, beauty salons, bars, restaurants, taxis… I stopped it when we moved to more of a cashless society.

Most services are paid online or via card so naturally tipping disappears. Not to mention the costs have skyrocketed to spend money on these things.

Unfortunately at the end of the meal i asked for the bill. This took 5 mins but then they left me with it. I put the card with the bill expecting them to come and take payment but over and over again they walked past and ignored my attempts to get them to take payment

So many places do this - it absolutely pisses me off. The payment process is still part of the service. Making sure clients aren't kept waiting unnecessarily is part of it. It really gets my back up that they think my time is worth nothing. I've discovered, though, that if no-one comes with a card machine, despite going to other tables with it and ignoring my table, if we all stand up and make a show of putting our coats on and gathering up belongings, tucking chairs under etc, they soon run over as they know full well you haven't paid yet and are worried that you're going to leave without paying.

I think , if I had a really urgent deadline, I WOULD leave without paying, and phone them when I was on the way to where i was heading and do the payment over the phone. I'm not going to miss my train/show/be late for meeting someone just because they didn't want to take my payment in a timely manner.

I do agree the tipping culture can get out of hand.

I made an online donation through one of the ‘giving’ platforms recently, and the platform added on a 20% tip! I already knew it would be taking £5 of my donation ‘to cover costs’ which I thought ample. This was another £20, for nothing. I did remove that.

I don’t generally tip because I’m not that well off, if it costs me £60 to take my family out for lunch then I have to tip an additional £10 then I’m basically paying for an extra meal every 6 weeks. I understand that it’s a different system in the USA and I just assume that the price in the menu is 20% less than it would be in the UK and order accordingly.

Depends on the country. In the UK, Australia etc it is clearly optional (or should be.)

I have seen service charges creeping in but will get it removed if unhappy.

In the USA / Canada it should be viewed as mandatory and you are actually taking income
from servers if you refuse to pay it.

As a former waitress / bargirl / barrista I always tip. Always.

YANBU it should be a choice. In the UK, we have NMW, and it should not be down to customers to top it up.
Saying that, if I am out in a big group then I feel the server deserves a tip for dealing with us all.

And when they raise the salary they have to raise the price of the food and it’s just getting way to expensive.

I feel like they are trying to force an American system of tipping on us sometimes. People here should be paid a proper wage and if you’ve had good service you should show that, fine.

What I’m sick of is the expectation of a tip before the service. I got an uber eats delivery when we had covid. I would have tipped him AFTER the delivery was okay, but because I didn’t tip before he was incredibly rude and thew the stuff down.

i follow someone on Instagram, he’s a waiter in the US, he gets $4-500 dollars a shift there.

Nope there is fuel and car parking charges it used to be cheaper to order in at times rather than go to the hassle of dragging ds into the car and paying to park etc but then they put mandatory tipping and other charges in so it's off in the car I go 🤷‍♂️

I always tip when eating out, and have for years. All the friends I eat out with do the same, usually 10%. I do think it’s pretty rude to have good service and just pay the bill and zero tip.

I used to always tip as have been a waitress in the past. Sadly, I’ve had to not do this so much recently. Taking my kids out for a treat really is a treat that stretches the budget. Should I not take the children out for an occasional treat because I can’t afford to tip? Should we never eat out? Of course not, tipping is not mandatory. If I can afford to do so I will.

previously, I would only not tip if the service was bad and this seemed to be happening more and more. Why would I tip when I’ve had a rude and bored server?

i wasn’t actually disputing whether it was cheaper or not, more making the point that for someone to bring you food (who presumably also has petrol costs and needs to run a car) then by rights you should expect that to be more expensive than doing it yourself. Fair enough if you don’t want to pay it but someone needs to earn a wage in the equation.

isn’t it false economy though?

yes 4-500 $ sounds a lot. But I think they’re taxed on their tips? they also have no job security, no sick leave, no annual leave, no healthcare, pension, maternity leave etc etc.

dh is self employed and it’s similar. On paper his hour rate is much much higher than a salaried employee. But after he’s paid an accountant to do his tax return, paid taxes, paid into his pension (with no employer contributions this is high), put aside a cushion for cover should he be sick or not get enough work, it all mounts up.

add in the cost of US healthcare and I wouldn’t be surprised if he ends up with less disposable income than someone on minimum wage here. Who at least will get pension contributions, sick, mat leave and annual leave.

i spend a reasonable amount of time in the us visiting family and sometimes I really dislike the pushy “working for tips” style. I will often tip someone higher if they are basically polite, efficient and helpful, rather than the over gushy interrupting me every 5 minutes to ask if everything’s ok, and upselling stuff that turns out to be not what we want.

I will say the last couple of trips to the us they seem to be dialling back the attitude and servers have more of a “normal” demeanor, and are appreciative of tips rather than expectant. It’s almost refreshing to be left alone to enjoy the food!

They don't pay enough attention to if they have the right order. Several times they've delivered the wrong order because they've not looked to see if the order number is matched. They often deliver for other restaurants at the same time so the food can be stone cold by the time you get it. We live in a estate of flats they rarely come straight to our door.

In short many of them are useless and not intelligent enough to follow simple instructions... a tough pill to swallow when it's so expensive now.

I'm fundamental against tipping as all employers should be paying their staff a decent living wage. I'd have no issue tipping good service in a fair world, but imo the onus should be on rich employers to pay their damn staff.

And you honestly think not tipping is helpful?

Why not start surveying staff to see how they feel about your position?

There’s a difference between not tipping and being forced to tip because staff aren’t paid a wage.

I worked in the industry in the UK for a long time. Tips were a nice to have, few pounds extra and a bit of a thank you. If no tip left no big deal, no upset. My personal “staff survey” would show no one is bothered about tips, and they don’t consider tips when taking the job/budgeting income etc.

in the US it’s massively different. The pressure to leave a tip, the over the top effort to earn bigger tips. Because if tips aren’t left they don’t get paid. That’s what I’m against. They should get paid a decent wage.

You are not stealing from someone in America if you do not tip.

It is permitted (in some states) that tips count toward the min wage, however if the employee does not earn enough in tips to make up their wage, the employer is supposed to pay min. wage.

So if anyone is stealing from wait staff, it is employers who do not top up to min. wage.

Indeed. A friend checked into a 'nice' hotel in Bloomsbury - she's American and was booked to stay 7 nights - and found they expected her to pay a daily "service charge" of £15! Examining their T & C, I found it said that the rate offered "included taxes and fees"; the CF "daily service charge" was buried deep within their "FAQ".

I told her it was cheeky fuckery and if they thought people should pay it, they should simply add it to the per night rate. Of course, they don't want to do that because it would tip the rate over into the next hundred!

She took my advice and told them she wasn't paying it because "My British friend is having none of this sharp practice!"