To think tipping is a choice and not mandatory

[Pinkdreams]

I keep seeing posts online about if you can't afford to tip don't eat out, I know this is mainly aimed at America, however it seems people think tipping is mandatory and I don't understand, I don't have an issue with tipping but expecting someone to pay an extra £10 on top of a £50 bill is abit extreme, is it just me who feels this way? I know wait staff don't make a lot in America but shouldn't that be the employers issue?

We tip if someone is exceptional. If we go out with DCs for example and the waiter engages with them or goes out of their way in a way. If they just take the order and deliver the food then we won't, as in the UK wages are mostly fair.

America needs to sort out the living wage for waiting staff, the anxiety of not knowing if your making enough whilst actually at work working is awful. Bosses problem not customers, being able to afford to pay for your own dinner is totally different to also having to pay the wages of person waiting on you too

I don't tip at my hairdresser as they are cash only . Last time I tipped the hairdresser she put it into the till and not onto her pocket so I think the owner is keeping the tips as she did not look pleased to be Getty a tip .

It's an interesting debate. I've never been to America, and certainly don't intend to (unless they amend their crazy gun laws, which seems unlikely). My politics lean vaguely towards socialism, so on balance I prefer that people earn a living wage. But @ComtesseDeSpair makes a valid point about people being able to earn more through hard work and good service.

In a restaurant I assume a service charge of 10 to 15 percent and add it manually if it’s not on the bill. I regard it as part of the price of going out.

Surely it's always been cheaper for you to do that - you're paying because it's convenient to have it brought to your door.

In the us minimum wage is around $8. Servers are paid around $2 an hour.(depending on state) The employer needs to make up the difference if you don't earn tips. But once you've made $6 in tips the employer doesn't need to pay more. The owners must be making a fortune. Wages is my dad's biggest outgoing in his shop.
I also saw a woman saying that she prefers tip model as she tends to average $40-50 an hour and would hate to work for just £10 like in the uk.

When we were in Mexico we saw how the Americans were tipping staff and it did feel a bit uncomfortable as if we should be doing the same. It also felt like any staff that were being pleasant were only after a tip.
However we got to know some of the staff a bit (I speak good Spanish) and I did ask one of them about it. He said that while tips were great some Americans used them to make themselves feel better about treating the staff like dirt (which we did witness). We tipped on occasion and if we had cash on us as we were AI but we were actually served better than most guests just by being nice and respectful to people.
Another side of tipping was shown to me when I did some cultural training as I have a lot of US clients. I was told that its very important to make a BIG DEAL out of anything you do for them since assistance and service in The US can be a bit performative due to the tips mentality. So just quietly solving problems and minimising them or only telling clients about them once its all sorted can make US clients think you aren't doing much apparently.
I don't get tips of any kind from clients (although I do sometimes get gifts) but with my US clients I have learned that my feedback is better if I make out I am some sort of hero going above and beyond.

Out of interest can I ask what makes the delivery " bad"

I'm sorry but it's tight not to leave a tip in a sit down restaurant with table service, if everything was reasonable or better.
Even if the food is shite and gets sent back, if the waiters handle it with grace then I wouldn't reduce the tip any more than I already am by deducting that dish. It's not their fault if the chef sucks.
Waiting tables is really hard work. And not well enough paid.

But why is a restaurant over any other minimum wage job? I work a minimum wage job and having worked as a waitress before my current job is definitely harder. But I don't get tips.

I never tip and always manage to get an appointment when going to the opera

So although they claim in that they need tips to survive they are actually the ones holding the industry back as they don’t want a good minimum wage?

In America, you should always tip 20%. If you can’t afford to, then you can’t afford to eat out. When I eat out in the U.S., the waiting staff always seemed relieved when they get a proper tip, it seems they’re used to Brits not tipping.

No it isn't, they are being paid to do their job - plenty of other people work in minimum wage jobs that are hard work but they don't get tips.

I would rather the restaurant added 10-15% to all their prices and paid their staff better to be honest.

Unusual indeed, and it shouldn't work.

If I was in a restaurant before you I wouldn't expect to be moved because you decided to show off and flash more cash. I'd be pretty pissed of and would likely either go elsewhere if not already served or demand a significant reduction to my bill for the inconvenience.

First come, first served unless clearly pre-booked.

Not sure I really believe you, to be honest.

As for tipping itself, if I get good service I tip. If I get crap service then I don't. I'm always friendly and polite.

I get that.

I remember waiters at restaurants in New York City sometimes being at pains to point out as they served us that service was NOT included in the bill. To be honest, it felt very forthright and "in your face" but we did tip for reasonable service. In fact, there was only one restaurant where we didn't tip and that was because they simply couldn't get our order (only a pizza and garlic bread) right at all and took absolutely ages with it.

I have no issues with tipping but it will never be mandatory for me to pay it.

Eating out is now a luxury for most and there doesnt seem to be any 'value' places about anymore. IMO that means if i am paying good money for a meal, i expect everything to be prefect. I have a list of minimums. If anything on the list isnt right i wont pay a tip and if someone asked i would happily tell them.

1. Food tasty, good portions and cooked well.
2. Acknowledged within 5 mins of sitting down and drink order taken
3. Food brought in good time, no real hurry
4. Asked at least once during meal if i need another drink
5. When i ask for the bill i expect it to arrive in the next 5-10mins and be able to pay it straight away.

I had a valentines meal recently at an absolutely lovely place. Lovely meal, lovely service and great company. I had brought cash to pay a 20% tip (I paid for the meal on card). Unfortunately at the end of the meal i asked for the bill. This took 5 mins but then they left me with it. I put the card with the bill expecting them to come and take payment but over and over again they walked past and ignored my attempts to get them to take payment. After 20mins i stood up and went to the till to pay. Stood there for another 5 mins and paid. My tip stayed in my pocket.

I refuse to pay hundreds of £££ for an experience and then give extra unless the experience has been 100%.

I am generally against tipping but I do tip takeaway drivers. Usually £2 on a £20 order. It doesn't make a huge difference to the cost and while it's not much, it's something. I can't see that they're being paid much at all.

In a restaurant, depends on the service. But tbh I don't generally go above £5. I don't eat out at super expensive places so that feels about right to me. Mainly because I don't want tipping to get out of control here, like it is in the US!

Don't use hairdressers any more but had already stopped tipping them. This was after my last hairdresser was telling me about all the holidays he'd been on that year and was planning for the following year! While I was going nowhere. The hairdressers is so expensive anyway, hence why I stopped going.

America is just awful for it and one of the reasons I have no desire to return.

If it is to be optional as it is here in the UK, then the law should ban any default option which you have to remove. Given tips cannot contribute towards the minimum wage, would be reasonable.

I work in hospitality and I agree with your first statement, having worked in social care where you're not allowed to receive tips and have to declare any gifts etc and they may be returned depending on value etc (rightly so to protect vulnerable people).

I don't agree with your second statement, where I work they pay above minimum wage for everyone and more than the industry norm for qualified/experienced staff. The prices are on the high side and are commented upon. The service is also good and genuine because we're paid and treated better than a lot of hospitality and it shows.

And it's very rare for the notion that the business charges more because they pay their staff more to even be considered, it just doesn't enter people's heads that the price is 10-15% higher than somewhere else because our staff are on more money and somewhere else they're on less.

The general consensus is the company is greedy and yes the service is good but....... I can get it cheaper elsewhere, all be it with poorer service.

Which leans towards the notion that people don't think that good service is worth much - well that's until they consider they didn't get it and there's hell to pay!

It seems a bit off to me. You have to tip to make sure people aren't going home with $2 an hour, but because the tip percentages are so enormous, they're actually going home with hundreds at the end of the evening. If I want to treat my family to a once in a blue moon meal, for a special birthday for example, and we have to load an extra 25% on top so that someone can go home with hundreds, and it's not even the person who grew the food or prepared the food, I don't see that as fair.

Moreover people do need to work the quiet shifts, how is it fair that those people earn so much less? It might be less running around, but it's still work.

There is a lot of drum banging about how they earn less than minimum wage, but in the same breath they don't want the system to change, they don't want to see all waiting staff earning a fair wage, their friends on the mid morning shift can just go and suck it up. Who would want to be kitchen staff with that system? Who would want to grow the food?

It doesn't sound ideal to me.

Ignore the US which is different but I don’t tip for a meal now since the minimum wage increases.

This video by John Oliver on tipping in America is well worth a watch - gives a lot of context to the tipping custom there.

Highlights a study that shows people would rather tip than have the cost baked into the price even if it meant paying more was interesting.

https://youtube.com/shorts/f4KA_TTN8NU?si=Bk8hMerwiQvufsle

Most retail staff are paid minimum wage and they dont get tipped. They provide a service and they are also treated horrendously by some members of the public.