To be confused by benefits cuts to the disabled and ill?

[AllyHayHay]

As luck would have it, I have not been in this position, but I do know of one disabled lady who has struggled. She was incredibly fortunate to already own her own home prior to her accident.

I am not what you'd call politically astute, but I have been reading about the proposed spring benefits cuts and wonder why people always discuss this ONLY affecting the sick and disabled.
I am also aware that there are many, many rough areas with families who have never worked, people who are struggling with addiction, prison sentences (their kids, spouse, etc) and these people never seem to be included in the Guardian articles and opinion pieces online.

Why would a system wish to make the life of a disabled person worse, yet ignore the growing issues of illiteracy, generational poverty and other issues which are going on in most urban areas just out of sight of the comfortably off?
Why not address the reasons that great swathes of people are living on benefits across the UK who are NOT disabled? I imagine this would drag up questions of why those issues persist - and no one in government wants to address that.

Since benefits claimants who are not in work of on the pension are a minority, are these cuts more of a populist tendency?

If they are going for LCWRA now it will be child disability element next 😞

Given that PIP is supposed to be the benefit that covers the extra costs of disability or long-term sickness, what is the logical or moral justification for LCWRA payments?

@EuclidianGeometryFan Not sure what your personal experiences are with disability but I can assure you that for many PIP absolutely doesn't cover the extra cost of disability. My child needs 24/7 care. Pip is just over £700 per month. You cannot provide 24/7 cost for someone at that rate. Then there is the extra transport cost (as DC always needs to be accompanied), extra heating (we are at home more), cost of therapy which the NHS doesn't provide, I could go on and one. Your post is really incredibly ignorant.

I was not talking about the reality of PIP and the costs of living with disability.

I was talking about the lack of a logical principle behind LCWRA payments. I see no reason why the unemployed and the disabled or sick get different rates of UC - this seems to be a moral 'punishment' to unemployment.

In practical terms, it creates an incentive to get certified as sick, and creates a massive bureaucracy around assessment and certification.

Nobody knows what will happen yet?
It's scaremongering at the moment.
The government like to do this every now and again.
It's not nice to worry people and messes with their mental health.

It's meant to be temporary if you're unemployed. It's highly likely to be temporary for disabled people

LCRWA is meant to be a wage replacement payment as the claimant can not work (but they only get half of what someone on NMW would get anyway).
Someone on job seekers is hopefully only on it for the short term, but I do agree that it should be more anyway.
PIP is not a wage replacement benefit, and it is not linked to LCWRA. Some people on LCWRA would not be eligible for PIP, and some people on PIP would not be eligible for LCWRA.

@OhCalmTheFuckDownMargaret yes

Yes, I can see that makes sense (I assume a typo for 'unlikely').

There used to be a 'long term rate', i.e. your basic allowance (whether disabled, sick, or unemployed) went up after a year on benefits. This created even more of a benefits trap that disincentivised work.

The system doesn't work for the long-term unemployed. There was, subsequent to the change to IS, a massive push to put all the long-term unemployed into the sickness category (to massage the unemployment figures).

I just think there is no good reason for UC to distinguish between unemployed, sick, and disabled categories, especially in times of structural long-term unemployment, such as we are most likely now heading into (due to recession and rise in pension age).

To be clear, I am in no way suggesting that disabled people should not be funded properly - but I am deliberately not commenting on the PIP or social care systems here.

So the trick is to declare yourself fit for work and then not get hired by anyone because you aren't fit for any of the jobs available 🤔

Only if you want to try to live on less than £100 a week.

The problem is the genuine ones may have their money cut....
Watch out for more mental health problems and suicides.
Didn't the government learn anything from I daniel blake.

If you declare yourself fit for work you'll need to attend meetings, interviews etc....
How will.people do that if they are too ill.
Go after bloody Michelle Mone instead.

I thought the proposal was that people on LCWRA would get less than those actively seeking work? If job seekers are going to get less than £100 a week, what will happen to the disabled?

The flaw is in considering any form of UC a 'wage replacement' - if that was the case it should be set at the same rate as NMW, which would be unaffordable.

It is also illogical that JSA is not considered 'wage replacement' - why not?
An unemployed person needs a replacement for a wage, because they haven't got a job (!). It is not good to have distinctions between long-term and short-term JSA rates as that creates a benefit trap.

Maybe the government needs to watch I Daniel Blake. Come on Ken Loach, this is your bag!

I know some of these people. Bone idle is the reason they don't work.
Obviously there are plenty of genuinely disabled people too.
However human nature is such that if there's a way to get money for nothing, people will do it.
It's difficult for the average middle class guardian reader to understand because you probably don't know anyone with that mindset. Therefore you think there must be a genuine reason why people can't work. For many there isn't.

At least my work coach interviews will be simple.

"Why didn't you apply for any of these vacancies we sent you?"
"Because 95% are driving jobs and the other 5% are in the middle of nowhere with no public transport links"

@junnney If you've never tried to claim PIP then you won't have a clue how difficult it is. Even with reports from Consultants, social workers, community healthcare teams, copies of prescriptions etc you can still get turned down. It really is the luck of the draw or rather the luck of getting an assessor who has a heart and a conscience. You are then forced into an appeals process that can take well over a year. During this time you don't receive a single penny. There are some people who just cannot face this absolutely soul destroying and terrifying process. My dh wouldn't be able to apply for PIP by himself if I didn't do it for him (I've officially been made his Appointee by the DWP at their suggestion, after a home visit, yet he was judged on his PIP form, by a DWP Assessor who'd never met him, that he was capable of handling complex finances even though they'd legally put me in control of all his benefits, you couldn't make it up, could you!). My heart goes out to those who are too disabled, depressed or sick to complete the horrendous PIP process or have been turned down because they've been too ill or depressed to go to the doctors etc and obtain medical reports. Thank goodness there is (currently) the LCWRA payment for people like this who aren't capable of looking for work and have no hope of obtaining and keeping a job. For these people the LCWRA extra money is a lifesaver. Also, because I'm a full time carer for dh who is in receipt of PIP, I am classed as LCWRA (we don't receive any extra money for this, if you are in a couple and you are both classed as LCWRA then it's one payment between you). Do you think that I should no longer have that status and have to therefore seek employment. If so, who do you suggest cares for my dh 24/7?

I'm absolutely shitting myself. I can't work so if they cut me off I'll just have to starve to death.
It's terrifying. It's not fair I should be penalised because untold people went on the sick during COVID? I worked for twenty years. I wish I could but I know it would make me more unwell.

They need to stop terrorising the most vulnerable members of society.
If I end up as an inpatient in a fucking psych ward it'll cost them more than it would to just give me the money I need to just about survive.

That's the nature of it though. There's no perfect system. You either have lots of people claiming unnecessarily so that genuine people don't miss out, or you have a situation where the benefit is so hard to get that people are forced into work but some suffer.

Personally I think people on benefits should be poor. It's ridiculous that someone on benefits can get the same money as for working an average salary job. If you're on benefits you don't get to have a car, TV , smoke, drink. If you want that you earn it yourself. And that includes people working low paid jobs.

Currently there's no difference in money between someone on benefits with children and someone earning 25k. That's wrong and it is a trap. Benefits should be literally a safety net to prevent starvation and homelessness, not a lifestyle choice

Disability should be only for things that actually physically prevent work.

Same here. I am terrified. I would not be able to afford to live at all, so what would be the point

Personally I think people on benefits should be poor.

You're so right, myself and my husband and our 10 year old daughter deserve a life in poverty. It's my own fault, should never have gotten that brain tumour.

Another big mistake is the right-wing inclination to 'punish' the unemployed by making them jump through all the hoops of these meetings, interviews, keeping records of all the hours they have spent job hunting and in 'work related activity'.

It is more pointless bureaucracy, and a nice living for all the people whose job it is to keep harassing and checking up on the unemployed.

The fact that UC is such a pittance is 'punishment' enough, and incentive enough to look for work to the best of your ability and capability.

Some people seriously imagine there are vast millions of unemployed who are quite happy to sit back and live on less than £100 a week, or who are happy to jump through the extra hoops to get a few quid more for being signed off sick.
Of course there are some, those who have a culture of black-market work and benefit fraud, but this is not the huge problem that it is made out to be.

Most people want to work, whether sick, or disabled, or healthy.

Being able-bodied is temporary. One day, you could possibly be on benefits due to something our of your control.
It will be ok though... I am sure foodbanks will have some humble pie for you.

The entire post reeks of jealousy. Maybe we should see if we can transfer our disabilities to @ExIssues along with all our benefits.