Shouting insults at 14 year old for saying “no?”

[PeopleNeverLearn]

Ok - maybe some might see the title as confusing for the situation I’m about to outline, but I had to choose a title, and it’s difficult to choose the most appropriate one.

Basically it seems that we all want to ensure our children are ‘safe,’ understandably- but then why on earth do some parents get abusive when kids say no to things they dislike?

I think that a HUGE amount of threads on MN involve issues surrounding people pleasing, in one way or another.

I have to ask, if all the ‘people pleasing’ threads suddenly disappeared from MN - what would be left of MN? And to be fair, I suffer from people pleasing myself so like reading these threads for tips on how to respond - so absolutely NO judgement - I’ve got people pleasing woven in to me !!!

Anyway, this is the scenario -

When I was 14 my mum had booked a holiday or was considering booking a holiday for me and her to go to America for a fortnight. I didn’t want to go and showed as much to her. She got angry and screamed at the top of her lungs -

“YOU UNGRATEFUL CAT!!!!!!”

I think my mum used the word ‘cat’ as didn’t want to obviously swear.

The reason I didn’t want to go is on the previous holiday we went on. my mum had harshly coerced me to “‘make friends” and severely scolded me for being “selfish” and liking my own company too much. This affected me so much I didnt want to be put in the same situation again.

I then immediately rolled over, and said I’d go on the holiday ‘cos I didn’t want to face my mum’s disapproval.

The holiday was shit, I had to do a lot of the Disneyworld rides on my own - I wish I hadn’t gone.

AIBU that I feel it’s important that we encourage children to say no when they don’t like something - even if it’s to us parents - otherwise how are they meant to be firm with possible predators etc in future -- in later childhood and adulthood also?

Eh? You wot?

Yes, absolutely. I only ask my kids if them refusing is an option. And then when they do say no I need to respect that. I do need to remind myself sometimes not to try too hard to convince her to make a different choice just because I think it's preferable but yes, I agree with you. Especially girls need to be told that it's not their job to be pleasant and agreeable even when it's to their own detriment.

I often tell my dd that being able to say no is one of the most important skills she can learn. I still find it hard though with age I'm grtting better at it.

Of course children are entitled to decline and their wishes respected. There will be things they have to do, we all have those at any stage of life, but not everything.

Your mother was unreasonable.

I have a feeling this story would sound a little different from your mums perspective.

Erm I think your mum is right, you are an ungrateful cat.

I think that children being potentially sexually abused by predators is a million miles away from your mum taking the huff you didn't want to go to Disneyland? 🫠

If you were 14 did you verbalise to your DM why you didn't want to go?

If she's booked a holiday for a 14 year old (at great expense by the sound of it, but she might have been well off and the cost wasn't an issue for all I know) what should she have sone when you didn't want to go? Lost the money and not had a holiday herself? Left you with someone while she went? Taken someone else in your place?

Did she even want to go to Disney or did she book it to give you a good time?

Both still potentially forms of abuse. I mean a parent not accepting their child's needs and basic boundaries can be abusive depending on the context. And I wouldn't say it's any less severe in terms of affect than sexual abuse.

I say this as someone who endured both kinds of abuse.

See I can understand the mum being a bit frustrated about it and even saying "you're going and that's that", (not ideal parenting maybe but understandable) but screaming and invalidating and tearing down the OP's personality? No. One is just less than ideal parenting but you can understand the mind frustration. The other one is just nasty and basically judging the OP for being introverted. It's one thing to gently coax a child out of their shell for their own wellbeing and happiness, but just making a child feel crap for attempting to set a boundary, (whether it's a reasonable one or not) is awful and very much the kind of But We Took You To Stately Homes kind of scenario we often see in MN.

Sorry to hear you experienced that, but I strongly disagree. In the context of OP saying their mum called them ungrateful regarding going on an expensive holiday vs a child being sexually abused. Then the former in no way equates the trauma of the latter.

I believe in kids having age-appropriate autonomy, but I wouldn't let a 14 year old dictate the family's holiday. If you leave everything up at a 14 year old, many of them would just sit on screens through all their free time. Their brains just aren't developed enough to make all the sensible decisions that as adults we know need to be made, like deciding to get some fresh air, eat healthy food, exercise, tidy up, do laundry, etc.

That said, it sounds like there may have been some much deeper issues between you are your mother.

Depends if the mum's behaviour is part of a pattern or a one off I think . If part of a pattern then it could potentially cause trauma issues like Complex PTSD. If a one off then I can agree with you there.

Children have the right to say no, if it is something that is negotiable and you as the adult are happy/able to accept that as the answer. So something like do you want to go to the park No ok what would you like to do instead.
It's time to go to school. No I don't want to
Well sorry but you have to

If OP is dredging up the experience from when they were 14 (I'm assuming this wasn't last year). Then I'd assume it's not that much of a pattern?

I can recall kicking off with my mum when I was 13, as she suggested we move to another part of the country (we didn't move), but essentially if we had (for a job she was offered). Then I'd have had to suck it up and go. I'm pretty sure I'd have gotten over it eventually, it wouldn't have been quite the end of my life as I was stating it was at the time.

Frankly if we get to a point where parents cater to every whim of their kids apparently dictating to them what they should/shouldn't do? Then we'll end up with generations of adults who fail to launch effectively in life. Parents don't necessarily always "know best", but for the most part they do hopefully know better than your average teenager.

But it's not about her being dragged on holiday. That isn't the damaging bit. It's being shamed for being introverted and screamed at for daring to set a boundary. Hopefully this kind of thing only happened the once. It's pretty unpleasant and no one needs to go round screaming and insulting anyone!

The mother could have said it kindly, could have explained she paid a lot of money for the holiday and she is sure that her daughter will enjoy it. That she thinks her daughter needs a bit of enjoyment in her life and why don't they think of some fun things for both of them to do once they are there ?

The point is we want confident strong minded children who aren't people pleasers. We all want that for our kids.

Thank you

this helps explain why I’m such a people pleaser !!

Thank you

Being able to say no is VITAL

I think we can all agree that shouting insults at other people isn't OK. Parents shouldn't shout at their top of their lungs at their child. But I don't think it's difficult to see how a parent who has arranged a big holiday for their teen, who in response seemed ungrateful and moody, might loose their shit and scream three words. OP, I don't think you're a people pleaser because your mother once screamed at you. I think you remember that incident because it was so scary. I suspect it's more likely due to years of her persuading you to do things you were uncomfortable with, and you were gently made to feel rotten if you didn't do as she wanted.

I do think your way of thinking about children saying no is becoming a more popular style of parenting. The problem comes when children are saying no to things an adult is requesting to keep them safe, or to help them develop.

If my teen DD had said she didn't want to go to Disney my first response would have been to ask why not? I'd have tried to work through what was bothering her about it. I suspect you didn't feel comfortable telling your DM why you didn't want to go, but did she try to talk to you about it, or just get angry? I think your relationship with her must have already been quite difficult.I'm also guessing that you didn't have any further holidays with her. Are you in contact now?

So true in your last sentence

Yes the last sentence in your guest paragraph is do right

No she didn’t ask why j wanted you go just got angry

my mum died a while ago

You were completely allowed to say no, especially as you knew from previous experience your mum might not be the best company, and you had no one else to turn to. Disneyland is not necessarily the dream they're trying to sell the world. I would hate it personally. To go on rides on your own doesn't sound fun at all either.
It's not how much parents spend on holidays which makes a good holiday. It's how much fun the family are having together, and having this sense of connection.
I understand what you're saying, and why it still hurts. Nobody can force you to feel grateful for something you didn't want to do (with good reasons) in the first place.

Exactly.

Thank you. 14 was the most difficult year of my life and your post is very reassuring ❤️

I also had the plan to raise my girls to be assertive.
It was all going so well. Both head girl of primary types.
But, I think as a result, The teenage years with my child with suspected ADHD has been hard. Hard and frankly horrible at times. I have absolutely lost my shit sometimes, though I'll allow myself the fact that I'm patient beyond belief with her most of the time. If she only remembers the losing my shit times that will be outrageously unfair on me.
I do think she will be an awesome adult who won't people please whatsoever.
I agree with the poster up thread who questioned whether it was a pattern or a one off.
If it was a one off (or at least rarely) then genuinely I'd cut your mum some slack, parenting teenagers can be very very hard.

It was a pattern, sadly ❤️

sounds like you’re doing great 😊

I can see what you mean OP but I think your example wasn't the best.

If I booked a holiday to Disneyland and my teen didn't at least acknowledge the money spent and the gesture then I would be annoyed too. While your mother shouldn't have shouted at you, she could have expected you to be thankful.

While we don't want to be people pleasers necessarily we also don't want to raise people who expect to dictate every situation either. Family holidays always involve compromises, and I assume your mother chose it with the intention to make you happy.

I don't think the holiday was the problem, I think your mother failed to parent the child she had, and instead parented the child she wanted you to be. That's the shit thing. Either way, I'm sorry you had to deal with it.