To think we need to prioritise defence/Ukraine spending?

[Wildflowers99]

I’ll admit I had no idea how depleted our military has become until a few weeks ago. I was absolutely staggered to read we now spend more on PIP and DLA than our entire military.

I feel like slowly all of our public spending has been funnelled into health, benefits and social care, leaving everything else in a very poor state. Any time anyone has suggested spending money on anything apart from ‘freezing pensioners, the homeless or disabled’ they get shouted down (I am disabled btw, so I do understand the need).

AIBU to think we need to urgently address our spending priorities and as a nation wake up to the fact we’ve been overspending on the above for too long?

Watching the rich use loopholes, where have you been?

Closing the loopholes would raise 7 billion a year. Worth doing, but not enough to save us by a very very long stretch.

I have voted to say yanbu but there is no doubt that there has been some appalling inappropriate commissioning by the ministry of defence. Billions has been wasted on projects not fit for 21st century warfare.
More could be done to get people from welfare to work but that has to be carrot and stick.
We are probably going to have to suck up higher taxes but we can no longer rely on the US and Putin has been emboldened so Europe has to step up.

Why is it not comparable? For 30 billion we could have doubled aid to Ukraine and still maintained that spending commitment for 5 years. Doesn't matter if it's a one off or not. The money is clearly there and available to use. You want to find savings, here they are right there.
So admit it, you ideologically object to benefits which is why you think it's the only solution.

So in your professional opinion, how much cash do we need on defense in order to "save us"?

@Wildflowers99 You didnt mention furlough Were you furloughed

It’s just worth pointing out you can’t close loopholes. The whole point of a system is you close one and another opens up elsewhere.

we have to have a robust and fair tax system, but there will always be loop Holes and the rich have the means to find and exploit them.

Because we can’t recoup the HS2 money now; and there was no indication of the war when it was spent. We can’t time travel.

I'm not sure where you're plucking your figures from. For example, a tax of just 2% on assets of more than £10m would generate £24bn a year.

What do you mean by assets? A wealth tax?

This thread pretty much sums up MN.
We all like to signal how caring we are - posts about crying after the Trump encounter, crying for the Ukrainian people caught up in the war. We must do more! we cry.
How will we pay for it? We don't want to cut spending on welfare (we care too much about that), we don't want to cut spending on the NHS (we care too much about that too), we can't touch pensioners because we care about them too.
If only we didn't care as much. In fact we are so caring, we will attack the OP for making a suggestion on how to raise some money to help the poor people in Ukraine we care so much about. But we can't take money from others we care about ... nightmare.
Let's tax the rich! They won't matter. Obviously anyone earning more than you are is 'rich' so it won't affect you.

Assets are things owned that have economic value.

Shame we have left the EU and missing out on all the billions now being funded by it

Yes I know that. So a wealth tax?

And whilst we are on the finer points of finance 😄

HS2 was a capital project. It increased the wealth of UK plc.

paying benefits is not a capital investment

supporting Ukraine is might to be a capital investment.

these are different funding streams and should not be mixed up.

There are different impacts to spending in Ukraine-

the potential purchase of capital equipment (increasing the value of UK plc)

the potential growth and job creation from investing in weapons technology and manufacturing (ie Belfast) increasing the wealth of uk plc

this changes the landscape in terms of funding and opens up the potential to use other sources of financing such as loans or other investment vehicles to fund Ukraine.

these options are not available to pay benefits, which have to be met from operational income- ie tax revenue.

thats why the conversation about how Ukraine is paid for is too complex for OP to be throwing around challenges on an internet forum

Like I said above a tax on assets. Before you ask again: assets are items owned that have economic value.

Ok, so somebody has a farm worth £10 million. You would demand they stump up £200,000?

Google is your friend I see 😉

Do you not think funding via loans is far riskier than controlling expenditure? Labour will be cutting benefits in any event, because they’re out of control and still rapidly rising.

It depends how you’re defining “rich”. Someone earning £100k a year? That’s not what I mean at all. I’m talking about corporations that are tax avoidant.

We can apply national insurance to investment income, raising up to £10.2 billion a year. We can also equalise tax rates so that tax paid on stocks and shares etc are the same as income tax which would raise nearly 17bn a year. And clamp down on tax havens.

@Cattery

"That’s not what I mean at all. I’m talking about corporations that are tax avoidant."

Increasing taxation on either individuals or corporations simply reduces economic growth. Cutting corporation tax increases economic growth.

How do think Ireland managed to get one of the fastest growing economies in Europe?

I’m a finance director and chartered accountant of 25 years.

i know enough (more than google can tell you) to tell you it’s too complex for you or anyone else here to add valuable contributions to.

👍👏🏻👏🏻

What does that mean exactly? Are you saying there's no point in doing anything?

So its acceptable to cut disability spending?

Of course, there wouldn't be so many disabled if the NHS hadn't been financially strangled.

Ah well, as ever, throw the cripples under the bus again, just like we did during Covid/lockdown. May as well just order us all out to be lined up and shot. That would be an epic saving. If you stand us all in a row you can do several with the one fucking bullet.