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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

AIBU to not want to go to war

502 replies

TemporaryPosition · 28/02/2025 21:13

It's expensive and it hurts and it helps nothing, it just puts innocent sons, brothers, fathers, uncles and friends through the meat grinder. The only people who benefit are those who make a fortune from selling weapons and are granted contracts for reconstruction.

Haven't we learnt anything? What happened to "never again".

AIBU to really really really not want to be involved in any war?

OP posts:
TemporaryPosition · 02/03/2025 16:14

cardibach · 02/03/2025 16:09

Us?
Edit: I’ve re read. Ypu said you weren’t English and implied you lived elsewhere than the U.K. but didn’t actually say so. If you are Scottish or Irish and trying to argue Wales doesn’t have a cultural difference with England I can’t even begin to help you.

Edited

I've implored yourself and others over several posts to tell me what those differences are. Other posters have asked this too. Nobody has answered. Just vague sounds about "anybody can be Welsh if they identify as it".

OP posts:
Llttledrummergirl · 02/03/2025 16:22

Three friends married women from different parts of United Kingdom.
..The first man married an Irish girl
. He told her that she was to do the dishes and house cleaning.
It took a couple of days, but on the third day he came home to see a clean house and dishes washed and put away.

The second man married a English girl.
He gave his wife orders that she was to do all the cleaning, dishes and the cooking. The first day he didn't see any results but the next day he saw it was better.
By the third day he saw his house was clean, the dishes were done, and there was a huge dinner on the table. ...

.The third man married a girl from Wales.
He ordered her to keep the house cleaned,
dishes washed, lawn mowed, laundry washed, and hot meals on the table every day. The first day he didn't see anything,
the second day he didn't see anything either,
...... but by the third day, some of the swelling had gone down,
he could see a little out of his left eye and his arm was healed enough that he could fix himself a sandwich and load the dishwasher.
He still has some difficulty when he urinates.

pointythings · 02/03/2025 16:56

Llttledrummergirl · 02/03/2025 16:22

Three friends married women from different parts of United Kingdom.
..The first man married an Irish girl
. He told her that she was to do the dishes and house cleaning.
It took a couple of days, but on the third day he came home to see a clean house and dishes washed and put away.

The second man married a English girl.
He gave his wife orders that she was to do all the cleaning, dishes and the cooking. The first day he didn't see any results but the next day he saw it was better.
By the third day he saw his house was clean, the dishes were done, and there was a huge dinner on the table. ...

.The third man married a girl from Wales.
He ordered her to keep the house cleaned,
dishes washed, lawn mowed, laundry washed, and hot meals on the table every day. The first day he didn't see anything,
the second day he didn't see anything either,
...... but by the third day, some of the swelling had gone down,
he could see a little out of his left eye and his arm was healed enough that he could fix himself a sandwich and load the dishwasher.
He still has some difficulty when he urinates.

And the Scottish girl who married the fourth guy mysteriously got a new patio...

Fawful · 02/03/2025 17:02

Regardless of what people from the Donbas identify as, I'd be astounded if they preferred to be ruled by Putin rather than Zelenskyy. I mean who would like to belong to the Russian Federation, a country ranked 164 out of 180 in the democracy index? Apart from if you are the type of person who can see themselves tapping into corruption to make yourself rich, or give yourself some unfair advantages in some way due to connections etc?

cardibach · 02/03/2025 17:27

TemporaryPosition · 02/03/2025 16:14

I've implored yourself and others over several posts to tell me what those differences are. Other posters have asked this too. Nobody has answered. Just vague sounds about "anybody can be Welsh if they identify as it".

Where did I say that? I said people could have Welsh as their cultural identity without speaking the language. Though actually, I do think anyone can become Welsh (or any other nationality) if they live there and work with and for the country).
Where are you from?

ThatsNotMyTeen · 02/03/2025 17:33

I think it’s because no one wants to go to war that Starmer, Macron etc are having talks

cardibach · 02/03/2025 17:54

Indeed @ThatsNotMyTeen
Some posters seem to think anything other than letting Putin take Ukraine is warmongering and ‘wanting to go to war’. Talks are about stopping that - but as Starmer said in his press conference just now we have to be prepared to defend ourselves. And by ‘ourselves’ I mean Europe and our allies, not just the U.K.

TemporaryPosition · 02/03/2025 18:29

Fawful · 02/03/2025 17:02

Regardless of what people from the Donbas identify as, I'd be astounded if they preferred to be ruled by Putin rather than Zelenskyy. I mean who would like to belong to the Russian Federation, a country ranked 164 out of 180 in the democracy index? Apart from if you are the type of person who can see themselves tapping into corruption to make yourself rich, or give yourself some unfair advantages in some way due to connections etc?

Hunter Biden was on the board for a Ukrainian utilities company?

I'm sure many would prefer to be under Zelensky (the West) but you couldn't trust a single poll to come out of that region. If you really use your imagination - remember most of these people will be ethnically Russian. They won't be subjects as in subjugated they would be equal to others in the motherland and while it might not be everyone's first choice, I'm not sure how many would be willing to sacrifice their families and themselves over it. Settle for peace might be a preferable response. And while Ukraine is under Western stewardship any 'peace' will be provisional and uneasy... .. I don't know. All I know is I don't trust the West either and it astonishes me to see people who were around when our own leader manufactured an excuse (LIED) to invade another country, we still see ourselves as the global good guys.

OP posts:
TemporaryPosition · 02/03/2025 18:35

ThatsNotMyTeen · 02/03/2025 17:33

I think it’s because no one wants to go to war that Starmer, Macron etc are having talks

Why is it only Starmed and Macron? Why are they not saying it in the BBC, where's Germany

OP posts:
TemporaryPosition · 02/03/2025 18:36

cardibach · 02/03/2025 17:27

Where did I say that? I said people could have Welsh as their cultural identity without speaking the language. Though actually, I do think anyone can become Welsh (or any other nationality) if they live there and work with and for the country).
Where are you from?

Ethnically or where do I live or what do I identify as?

Still, nobody can tell me how the Welsh differ from the English

OP posts:
TemporaryPosition · 02/03/2025 18:39

Fawful · 02/03/2025 17:02

Regardless of what people from the Donbas identify as, I'd be astounded if they preferred to be ruled by Putin rather than Zelenskyy. I mean who would like to belong to the Russian Federation, a country ranked 164 out of 180 in the democracy index? Apart from if you are the type of person who can see themselves tapping into corruption to make yourself rich, or give yourself some unfair advantages in some way due to connections etc?

It's interesting to hear what Chinese people have to say about democracy. Democracy is in decline all across the West, and plenty have argued it never existed in the first place. Its the noble lie to keep the peace.

OP posts:
pointythings · 02/03/2025 18:49

Still, nobody can tell me how the Welsh differ from the English

Ask a Welsh person. If you dare.

pointythings · 02/03/2025 18:50

TemporaryPosition · 02/03/2025 18:39

It's interesting to hear what Chinese people have to say about democracy. Democracy is in decline all across the West, and plenty have argued it never existed in the first place. Its the noble lie to keep the peace.

True colours well and truly on display here.

kungfoofighting · 02/03/2025 19:08

TemporaryPosition · 02/03/2025 18:39

It's interesting to hear what Chinese people have to say about democracy. Democracy is in decline all across the West, and plenty have argued it never existed in the first place. Its the noble lie to keep the peace.

I have Chinese friends who fled the country because friends were disappearing and they were at risk of being killed. They are an astrophysicist and a librarian. Very nice gentle people. There is a documented issue with organ harvesting in China. It’s a brutal country.

Llttledrummergirl · 02/03/2025 19:11

TemporaryPosition · 02/03/2025 18:36

Ethnically or where do I live or what do I identify as?

Still, nobody can tell me how the Welsh differ from the English

Edited

I've told you, if you don't understand, that's on you. I don't think humour translates well into Russian.

TemporaryPosition · 02/03/2025 19:26

Llttledrummergirl · 02/03/2025 19:11

I've told you, if you don't understand, that's on you. I don't think humour translates well into Russian.

No you haven't, and that's a cop out because I think if you could, you would have.

OP posts:
TemporaryPosition · 02/03/2025 19:27

pointythings · 02/03/2025 18:49

Still, nobody can tell me how the Welsh differ from the English

Ask a Welsh person. If you dare.

I have, as have other posters, several times. C'mon. I am genuinely interested, and growing more and more interested the longer it seems to be an unanswerable question

OP posts:
kungfoofighting · 02/03/2025 19:28

TemporaryPosition · 02/03/2025 18:36

Ethnically or where do I live or what do I identify as?

Still, nobody can tell me how the Welsh differ from the English

Edited

They’re a different community?

C152 · 02/03/2025 19:44

TemporaryPosition · 02/03/2025 15:00

I don't think we need to make Russia our mortal enemy. We, as in the West, as part of the American Empire have not been innocent in this. There are tensions, yes. But surely to goodness the best way to proceed would be to de-escalate this. Ukraine have been left high and dry by being egged on as part of NATOs expansion and now the world has a new leader who isn't interested. The territory has been lost to Russia. It is not coming back. I mean some of it was already leased to Russia anyway, all of those smart remarks about what bits of the UK we would be happy to hand over, well firstly none of it is already rented out to Russia, but secondly, we've been quite happy selling them properties. Russia doesn't have the capability to take Europe. By all means yes we should stop relying on Russia to defend us. But we need to stop throwing people at this war. We can surely come to bloodless diplomatic solutions if we stop being hysterical and try. I just can't get over the lack of willingness to even try this.

The list of criminal acts I pointed out are more than mere 'tensions', OP. And you haven't addressed my point that Russia is imposing war on us, whether we want it or not.

The UK is not part of the bizarre 'American Empire' you seem to have invented. NATO was established to counter the threat posed by Russia - it's a defensive alliance, not a group of violent, aggressive warmongers. NATO has not attacked or invaded Russia.

https://www.nato.int/cps/ra/natohq/115204.htm

Russia is the one who has broken international law by invading another sovereign state. And if they were genuinely worried about NATO expansion, they'd live a peaceful existance within their own borders. It's blatantly obvious to even the most politically illiterate that the quickest way to expand NATO is to invade other nations. No doubt Finland and Sweden would still be neutral had Russia not invaded Ukraine.

I don't see anyone MAKING Russia their mortal enemy and I have yet to hear a head of state call Russia their mortal enemy. I see Russia seeking power, land and wealth through the violent invasion of another nation state; kidnapping thousands of their children and sending them to "reducation" camps within Russia, brainwashing them into thinking their parents gave them away or didn't want them; attempting to commit genocide through the murder of innocent civilians and sending an influx of Russians to outnumber locals. I could go on, but instead I'll point you to the many news articles and books detailing their atrocities.

No Ukrainian territory has been permanently lost to Russia yet. They and the rest of Europe will keep fighting.

I assume your dismissive remarks about "some of it was already leased to Russia anyway" refer to the Partition Treaty and the controversial Kharkiv Pact, which Russia effectively blackmailed Ukraine into agreeing by pushing up the price of gas to unaffordable levels? If that is what you are referring to, Russia unilaterally terminated the agreement on 31 March 2014, after their invasion and illegal annexation of Crimea.

I agree that the UK should not have allowed Russian oligarchs to wash their dirty money here, but I fail to see what that has to do with your post about not wanting to go to war.

What do you mean, "we should stop relying on Russia to defend us"? Who is us? Fear not, I don't believe the UK or any of their allies will be expecting Russia to leap to their defence any time soon.

"We need to stop throwing people at this war". Again, who is "we"? I see Ukrainians fighting for their lives. I see Putin "throwing people" at HIS war.

I don't see anyone getting hysterical - except, perhaps, some of the people writing vague nonsense posts, with none of their points backed up by facts. I see those people get hysterical when people point out the holes in their arguments (with facts), then petulant when they lack the debating skills to argue back effectively.

NATO and the West have consistently tried diplomatic solutions with Russia - as has Ukraine. Russia has proceeded with their war. One cannot negotiate with an enemy that does not wish to negotiate.

Anonym00se · 02/03/2025 20:00

@TemporaryPosition Come on now, zaychyk. Is life really so bad that you’re forced to earn a handful of roubles winding up Brits on the internet with ridiculous arguments?

cardibach · 02/03/2025 20:05

TemporaryPosition · 02/03/2025 18:36

Ethnically or where do I live or what do I identify as?

Still, nobody can tell me how the Welsh differ from the English

Edited

Where do you live. I have told you, you just don’t believe me. Nobody but you has mentioned ethnicity.

cardibach · 02/03/2025 20:07

pointythings · 02/03/2025 18:49

Still, nobody can tell me how the Welsh differ from the English

Ask a Welsh person. If you dare.

She did. I answered. She didn’t believe me. Others have tried too. None so blind as those who will not see.

TemporaryPosition · 02/03/2025 20:07

Anonym00se · 02/03/2025 20:00

@TemporaryPosition Come on now, zaychyk. Is life really so bad that you’re forced to earn a handful of roubles winding up Brits on the internet with ridiculous arguments?

*Leonid

OP posts:
C152 · 02/03/2025 20:09

TemporaryPosition · 02/03/2025 18:29

Hunter Biden was on the board for a Ukrainian utilities company?

I'm sure many would prefer to be under Zelensky (the West) but you couldn't trust a single poll to come out of that region. If you really use your imagination - remember most of these people will be ethnically Russian. They won't be subjects as in subjugated they would be equal to others in the motherland and while it might not be everyone's first choice, I'm not sure how many would be willing to sacrifice their families and themselves over it. Settle for peace might be a preferable response. And while Ukraine is under Western stewardship any 'peace' will be provisional and uneasy... .. I don't know. All I know is I don't trust the West either and it astonishes me to see people who were around when our own leader manufactured an excuse (LIED) to invade another country, we still see ourselves as the global good guys.

You couldn't trust a single poll to come out of which region, OP? Russia? Well you're right there.

Ukraine is not Russia. Ukrainians are not Russian. They are NOT ethnically Russian and they certainly don't rejoice at the thought of potentially being forced to become part of Russia - a belief they are paying for in blood. How on earth can you have the audacity to claim they wouldn't sacrifice their families or themselves for this belief when that is exactly what they have been doing for the last 3 years and what they will continue to do, down to the last woman and child?

And don't be so ridiculously ignorant of history. Anyone violently subjgated into the 'motherland' won't be welcomed with open arms. They will be slaughtered, what's left of their children brainwashed and their culture destroyed and written out of the 'motherland's' history.

Ukraine is not now and will not be in the future under Western "stewardship". Ukraine IS and will remain an independant sovereign state. What WILL happen at the end of the war, is a multinational allied posting of tens of thousands of troops in Ukraine (notice I said troops, not peacekeepers) supported by the weapons of war one would expect. It won't just be a show of force. It will be an actual force to deter you from invading again.

TemporaryPosition · 02/03/2025 20:10

cardibach · 02/03/2025 20:07

She did. I answered. She didn’t believe me. Others have tried too. None so blind as those who will not see.

This is gaslighting of the highest order.

If you've told me, make me look a fool by duly repeating yourself.

Otherwise it just looks like you keep saying you've told me, when you haven't. Spell it out. I'm educated enough to understand, I think, I got high grades on uni level modules on culture. But it needs to be better than "someone who identifies as Welsh".

OP posts: