Children at bedtime: losing it

[Cdu2021]

I wonder if my DC (6 and nearly 4) are especially hard work or if I'm just not patient enough.
I lose my s*** nearly every bedtime I do on my own (when DH isn't around, which is about 80% of the time).
A typically "tough" evening would be:

• at dinner, both DC loudly bang their cutlery on the table, refuse to eat what I make, spill their water on the table on purpose, laugh at me when I get cross
• brushing teeth: I have to yell about 10 times for them to go and do it, will end up with one of them spitting their toothpaste all over the mirror
• getting into pyjamas is a battle, have to physically manhandle them to do it
• lots of shouting and shrieking and general loud chaos...

At any point during the above I will lose it so badly that I might lock myself in the loo, or keep them "locked" in their bedrooms for time out for a few minutes, or manhandle them or tell them I will leave or all of the above, which will result in them crying and saying I am mean...
So please tell me if that's just a tough age but normal behaviour, and I need to control myself better?

Just wanted to say that I sympathise. We have a nightmare every bedtime too. And there’s two adults usually trying to get one child to bed! I have just started to read a book called, “How to talk so kids will listen and listen so kids will talk.” I’ve only read the first few pages and it seems really good. Maybe try a book like that with some tips on how to get them to co-operate. It seems like a routine and pattern they’ve got into that you need to try and break. Good luck xx

Pretty standard at that age. It will pass.

Bedtimes are rubbish but this does sound quite extreme. Are you using countdowns and consequences? Sounds like you need to reset their behaviour, just losing it at them isn't going to be effective, and I know it's easier to say but the emotional reaction from you could be exacerbating it further. Children like boundaries from their adults. Could they have some wind down time before the bedtime process starts, maybe some quiet, separate from each other reading or drawing? Could you stagger their bedtimes?

Some kids are definitely more difficult than others!

Can you let some things go. I wouldn't care about the PJs with all this. I'd just let them sleep in whatever they have on unless it's uniform. Just let them sleep in clothes for the day or undies. I would not fight that one.

With the teeth I'd bribe. If you brush them properly for this long ( get an egg timer) then you can have this ( whatever you think you can offer). I'd say an extra story at bed but you probably get no peace ATM so maybe a reward in the morning so you aren't stuck there all night.

With the dinner, is it possible to offer a choice out of 2 things. Do you want this or this.

Some kids just want more control and will be little terrors until they get it. The bed clothes and choices and bribes might help alot of that.

Put their food in front of them, if they don't eat it then take it away. If they spill their water on purpose then take it away. If they don't want to get into pjs let them go to bed naked. If they don't brush their teeth take their toothbrush away. Stay calm. Don't let them wind you up. Reintroduce the brushing of the teeth after a few days.

Do they have consequences- especially the 6 year old?
Do kids muck around- yes. But what you’ve described OP is horrible, they actively want to upset you and seemingly have zero respect.

A Tonie box for my youngest & yoto player for my eldest have saved bedtime for me. It used to be the chaos you describe (same ages) but now they will pick their story and listen with headphones on.

there’s also an app called Moshi which I used before this that has kids sleep stories.

Just helps them calm down and stop being silly!

Are you trying to put them to bed together? At that age we started separate bedtimes. The youngest was yes still tricky because 4YOs be 4YOs but 1:1 both they and I were much calmer and it was all easier to deal with. Then without the chaos of the youngest the eldest could just be told to get ready for bed and they’d shower, brush teeth, put PJs on all without my involvement and then I’d pop up to read a story. Together though, yikes!

Re dinner I’d put their drinks in a sippy cup and give them plastic cutlery until they show they’re mature enough for big kid tableware. I’d always make sure there’s one thing on the table that they like but beyond that it’s up to them what they want to eat. Don’t make it a point of stress.

Can you take them to bed separately? Younger one first with really clear rewards or punishments for getting ready nicely. A timer for them to get changed and teeth cleaned or there are no stories?

I find the noise overwhelming too. Have you tried loop earplugs?

100% this. It sounds like they're enjoying winding you up to be honest. My dd can be like this sometimes and I usually find the most effective approach is to stay nonchalant. The only thing I would insist on is teeth brushing.

What are the consequences to their behaviour?

I'm just thinking that at 4 and 6 they must have lots of nice activities on like birthday parties. When there's a bad night like this I'd be stating the expectations and saying that if they aren't going to behave well that they'll miss out. And fully see it through. None of this one more chance etc... You behave badly then you miss out.

Conversely, reward every good thing they do, it doesn't have to be something amazing, but bragging to Grandma about a good thing they did, or saying you've been great this week at going to bed, let's go swimming/to the park.

I’ve always said

“well, if you don’t brush your teeth properly then we’ll have to stop sweets…”

…and meant it!

PJs etc I agree are optional. Teeth are the only thing I held 200% firm on!

consistent routine, walking out of the room if I felt rage (often!) and also - are u checking they’re not actually too overtired?

I'd also do separate bedtimes. The older can listen to an audio story or something for 30 mins. Divide and conquer.

Yes that sounds like most bedtimes for me and mine and 2 and 4 so nice to know I've got this for another few years. AHHHH!!!!

Running away and hiding when it's bedtime is their favourite game. It is exhausting manhandling them each night

Behavior chart and consequences work with my 6yr old. He even agreed on his own punishments 😂 what about a jar where they can earn tokens? Don’t bang cutlery - get a token. Do your teeth - get a token. Then when they get however many they get a reward. Start small so they get a small reward then once they’ve bought into the idea stretch it out for more tokens/bigger reward. Seems to work in school so I just copy what they do! Kids need structure and boundaries

How do they behave for their dad? Does the 6 year old behave like this for others such as teachers? I’m betting not.
Apart from getting cross what have your tried to change the behaviour.
Small children can be idiots but it does sound like you’re feeding into the chaos.
Best practice would be
-stay calm, don’t shout, definitely don’t cry.— have clear expectations and boundaries, stick to them and enforce them calmly.
-consequences for poor behaviour, rewards for good
-natural consequences- the no teeth brushing, no sweets is a good one
-they eat what you’ve given them or they don’t eat. The most I would offer would be a piece of toast before bed.
They sound like they’re currently running rings round you, time to get tough.

Agree . Tough love is needed.

I have an 8 year old and 5 year old and still in same boat! Mine are very high energy boys and it's a battle.

Sorry I’ve are 7 and 9 and OPs story isn’t a dissimilar one to our house tonight. Some days are better and perhaps less manhandling i to pjs needed…. But perhaps only because I can no longer over power them and the manhandling phase was better.
sorry

the not getting g sweets if they do t brush their teeth doesn’t work and my kids just say they’ll have it the next day so I now have to ‘tax’ them and say they’re allowed half their usual but have to give half to me (can’t face the agro of them having nothing whilst I eat their whole portion… not worth the screaming but I find half is a decent deterrent)

Yep, bedtime can be very trying!! I also do it on my own with 2 kids a lot so I really sympathise.

I know it’s so bloody hard, but I think you really need to ignore some of this behaviour. They are trying to provoke a reaction from you and they are getting one! If they don’t eat their dinner, then you let them leave the table and if they are hungry later then they get to eat their dinner. Absolutely no other food.

I think you need to maybe give some consequences to not listening. My DD was being like this earlier but really wants to go to the shops tomorrow, so had to use not going as a threat!! Also had to count down from 5 a few times, as in when I get to zero we aren’t going and I never got past 4!

Definitely sounds like they're enjoying the reaction from you so I'd try to take that element out.

If they start shouting or banging cutlery I'd put the dinner away and say oh dear, seems like you're not hungry.

Instead of 'sending them to bed' which they can argue about, try putting the lights on upstairs, play some relaxing music, setting out their pyjamas and toothbrushes and then gradually turning off the TV (unplugging/turning off wifi if necessary!) and lights downstairs. If you go up they will probably come to find you or want to go with you.

Rather than fighting over pjs and teeth I'd get some books ready and relax in your bed. Tell them when they're ready you will read them some stories and snuggle with them.
Then read your own book or something and ignore them.

Two very different suggestions

Try doing the tasks but with no interaction - just silence. It’s cold so not recommended for long term but it just somehow helps you focus on im getting the task done and im not rising to this and im staying calm. It might jolt them to improve behaviour because it sounds like they’re trying to wind you up at the moment.
That said stuff like noisy mealtimes and spilt drinks sounds normal - something to just weather at ages 4 and 6.

Or ask them how we can all commit to having better bedtimes. You agree to stay calm. They agree to try and behave. Talk about how nice it would be to get cosy in pjs and read stories and build up all the nice elements of bedtime that can be enjoyed if they can behave.

This sounds stressful and I have definitely been through some terrible bedtimes and I've behaved in crazy ways, so no judgment here. Mine are now 8 and 4 and go to bed nicely.

I would have a chat with the 6 year old and get them on board. Be honest and say you don't like the way bedtimes have been, you want them to be calm and relaxed and not crazy with mum getting cross and upset. Get them on board with you (like a big boy/girl helper) and say that if they can help you nicely then they can have a treat (small toy or like). I would also have a similar chat with the 4 year old and explain again that you really want things to improve. I'm sure they don't like it when you're upset even though it seems they don't care!

Meal times are really tough. I've tried things like writing out some expectations and sticking them on the wall. Sometimes I have to walk away if I'm getting really wound up. Kids will be kids but it's very triggering when they behave horribly at mealtimes. Hope things improve! X

Sympathies here @Cdu2021
Drop pj's , not worth the battle
Sippy cups or (tightly)screw on top bottles
Whisk plates away promptly,' ah well, maybe you'll be hungry later...'
Do teeth brushing over the kitchen sink
No screen of any sort an hour before bed. Books, drawing, Lego etc get on the floor with them.
One of the story telling apps to go to sleep to
No metal cutlery. Wooden cutlery is easily bought from supermarkets or online.

Night light

The absolute best advice I can give, is to imagine you are the star of a live tv show, the film crew are there, the viewers have switched on, so deep breath, bright smile, cheery voice, ignore poor behaviour and lavish praise for good.

And don't forget IT IS A PHASE