To think that most people who call themselves “empaths” are actually just manipulative?

[ByFluentPombear]

The ones who always claim they “feel other people’s pain” seem to be the most emotionally draining and self-centred.

I'd feel a bit uncomfortable or cringe saying I'm an empath. But I know I'm high in empathy, I'm highly sensitive ( as a positive trait, not by way of 'you're just too sensitive' which is a phrase I've only ever heard wronguns use tbh).

So I don't know what that says. Could I ever be manipulative? Like everyone else in the population, well of course. The extent to which I could or would is nowhere near folk in my periphery who are highly manipulative to the detriment of others.

As we are learning more about personality disordered individuals and awareness regards what this looks like is rising, I see an increasing awareness in the characteristics and traits that often attract the wronguns. And it tends to be the people high in empathy, high in forgiveness and compassion. So this is probably where all this empath stuff is coming from. It's the people who fit the characteristics of empath that are often victims to personality disordered partners or family members.

I'm a people pleaser also by nature but work on that now and have developed out of that role. I've read that this can be manipulative in itself, an attempt to control other people and outcomes. I ponder that and think it's good to be open to that.

The ones who I feel most comfortable and safe with are definitely those that would fit the definition of empath. And I know we are similar.

And yes, I've struggled with boundaries alot in my life!

Would that be considered a possible trait of narcissism?

I find it a bold assumption in some circumstances. I understand the being sensitive and intune with others moods. But the "empaths" who know how someone feels as they feel it. I wouldn't dare to assume I knew how someone's emotional responses were to certain situations. Even if I experienced the same event, I am not them, i don't know how they feel pain. They are perfectly allowed to be valid in their own experience without a gatecrasher.

Luckily, I’ve never actually met anyone who admits to identifying as an ‘empath’ except on Mumsnet. 😀

I’ve never heard anyone refer to
themselves as an empath. I’ve described others as empathetic though.

In my opinion empaths are just hyper vigilant and not well emotionally regulated. Could come from childhood trauma. They focus on reading others instead of on their own feelings and needs.

Generally people who self proclaim as an empath are usually anything but. Plenty of people are true empaths but either don't recognise it within themselves or don't self declare. Those who do often have a motive for doing so I agree; there's a difference between centering yourself in someone else's pain and in genuinely empathising.

Isn't it just a survival thing born in childhood. Where you had to know the moods of your caregivers to keep yourself safe. A trauma thing?

Anyone who has to tell others "I am <personality trait>" is clearly not.

Because they wouldn't need to tell people if they were, as people would see it for themselves.
Actions speak louder than words

I do agree to an extent - as everyone who I’ve heard refer to themselves as an empath has been a total dick manipulating situations!

However, I would identify with the definition of an empath, for instance when someone is upset, especially if I’m helping them, I physically feel their pain in my body, so I suppose I’d call myself an empath - but never out loud and certainly never refer to myself as one!

I personally don’t actually believe in the negative concept of “narcissism”, I think that it’s a social construct. I believe people act in ways to get their needs met, and in that view see it as a survival mechanism. I see “narcissism” as an outdated theoretical construct. But that’s just my opinion and lots of people disagree, which is fine.

So true. The "empath" I know (so empathetic she has made a business of it) spends time being adamant she knows how people are feeling. Even when those people tell her they aren't actually feeling that way. She won't have it. Because she "knows", you see. "Knows" you better than you know yourself.

Which is highly irritating.

Not trying to be smart but how did you check that your feelings were correct?

I used to work with someone in a leadership position who said that feeling colleagues’. emotions and being caring and empathetic ‘is their thing’. I can remember that making me feel uncomfortable as it felt so contrived and manipulative.

I think they’re more narcissistic.

Imagining you just feel things more than other people…..is not empathy.

Yes, in a way, and it's very sad that some people needed to develop that awareness. But instinctively knowing what the tone of voice and body language of a carer means doesn't translate to being able to do the same with strangers.

Came on to say exactly the same thing! Deanna Troi!
Anyone spouting such bollocks needs a wide berth

in My experience people who call themselves empathy are the drama llama skilled in making themselves the centre of everything.

Yes they will literally say something like, "be kind, Karen."

I roll my eyes whenever someone describes themselves as an empath.

I'm very good at picking up on facial expressions, non verbal cues etc, but that's because I had to be as a child and that hyper vigilance doesn't just go away, it's a safety mechanism. It's trauma, not a superpower 🤣

i'm very aware of peoples emotions/feelings, and that's because i'm the 'traumatised' type of 'empath' and i never use that word.. ick.

Its a place I've got through growing up with autism/adhd and an older brother who had some serious MH problems, then went into an abusive marriage, and then had a kid with autism/adhd that i had to learn to watch like a hawk to head off meltdowns.

I'm a Mental Health first aider which i do as a wellbeing volunteer at events, so i am good at spotting the nuances of mood, voice, and behavioural changes in people around me when we're having a conversation.. I'm literally trained to spot the red flags. i took my traumatic hypervigilance and decided to do something useful/constructive with it.

This isn't unusual or special there are plenty of people out there who do the same, but the people who do this and then go around calling themselves empaths and making other peoples upset all about them are wankers, and need to back up.

I think genuine empathy keep it to themselves and find it exhausting.

Google 'covert narcissist', its an eye-opener.

There is no such thing as an "empath". Anyone who believes themselves and empath is highlighting how little empathy they have by demonstrating:

• They have no understanding of the fact that the vast majority of the population are empathetic.
• They think that because they feel sad around someone who is sad, they feel the same. They are unable to perceive, for example, that someone who has just lost a family member is infinitely more sad than they are at seeing their sadness.
• They think that being able to read basic body language is some sort of super power rather than something everyone does.

All of this indicates that they have no understanding of other people's emotions and the human experience. They think the way they feel is not exactly the same.

The majority of self-proclaimed "empaths" I have met have been highly toxic and abusive narcissists.

I'd agree with this. I've struggled significantly with emotional regulation. I don't go around losing it at all, it's internalised, but it can blow. It's come from significant trauma, severe hypervigilant state from birth in an incredibly unsafe environment.

So I am highly attuned now - I've done years of work though. My sibling is a sociopath in behaviours and empathy is absent.

My capacity to empathise and love animals and all that is so intense it would make me cry. That actually got stronger after therapy.

But most of it came from hyper vigilance I do believe. It's interesting when you have a sibling also suffering trauma quite a lot who developed quite significant sociopathic tendencies and an almost complete absence of empathy. Maybe that's because they were the older one and also able to victimise myself as the youngest. Their necessity for hyper vigilance was much less as they were often left in charge.