Page 6 | Starmer did well yesterday

oceanflow · 2025-02-28T11:06:47+00:00

I mean, he was never going to magic a Trump personality transformation in the space of a couple of hours. But he walked the Trump tightrope well. I found the whole thing fascinating - particularly the contrived flattery. The mode of these US diplomatic visits now reflects the way you would visit a senile, elderly relative - any other leader would find it patronising, but it's all totally lost on Trump. The flourish if the state visit invite was hilarious. I was never a fan of Starmer particularly and thought he lacked charisma as a leader. But now I'm glad to have a leader who is about the tasks at hand, not simply his own ego. AIBU?

Mytholmroyd · 28/02/2025 18:10

Oh come on! It wasn't just 'saying something' or making carefully worded criticisms! It was insulting, probably libellous and deliberately so. That is not diplomacy or statesmanship.

They are a national embarrassment and when they were saying all this clearly never expected to be in power. Exceptionally poor judgement. I doubt very much any career diplomats would ever say such things publically before they made either to ambassador. Apart of course from the cronyism of appointing the several times disgraced Mandelson.

OneLemonDog · 28/02/2025 18:28

Watching Trump, Vance and Zelensky now...

...I thought Starmer did as well as he could, but it hasn't made a difference.

I think the UK might do well to consider revoking the invite and telling the US to go fuck itself. You can't make nice with the current regime, it is evil and exploitative. Might as well suck up to China, at least they're a tad more predictable and stable.

PandoraSox · 28/02/2025 18:43

Mytholmroyd · 28/02/2025 18:10

Oh come on! It wasn't just 'saying something' or making carefully worded criticisms! It was insulting, probably libellous and deliberately so. That is not diplomacy or statesmanship.

They are a national embarrassment and when they were saying all this clearly never expected to be in power. Exceptionally poor judgement. I doubt very much any career diplomats would ever say such things publically before they made either to ambassador. Apart of course from the cronyism of appointing the several times disgraced Mandelson.

Well to be fair Lammy was not wrong. Trump's performance just now was disgusting.

OneLemonDog · 28/02/2025 18:45

Mytholmroyd · 28/02/2025 18:10

Oh come on! It wasn't just 'saying something' or making carefully worded criticisms! It was insulting, probably libellous and deliberately so. That is not diplomacy or statesmanship.

They are a national embarrassment and when they were saying all this clearly never expected to be in power. Exceptionally poor judgement. I doubt very much any career diplomats would ever say such things publically before they made either to ambassador. Apart of course from the cronyism of appointing the several times disgraced Mandelson.

As others have said, you could find similar (and stronger) statements from people now in Trump's orbit. It doesn't seem to matter.

DungareesTrombonesDinos · 28/02/2025 18:48

Ablondiebutagoody · 28/02/2025 11:35

Top level brown nosing and very uncomfortable to watch. I was contorted into a full body cringe.

This when Starmer patted his shoulder I wanted to throw up!

Happyher · 28/02/2025 18:50

Starmer played Trump like a fiddle. A diplomatic success!

JoyousEagle · 28/02/2025 18:50

Mytholmroyd · 28/02/2025 17:35

I don't understand what you are saying @SerendipityJane do you think we are in danger of being attacked by the US?

The US can tell the US what to do for sure - I don't know what you mean by that.

I am not talking about war and stormtroopers (really?) - just personal integrity, dignity, authority and presence of the politicians who represent us and those two jokers have none. So they aren't going to get any respect from Trump and Vance. Nobody is going to take them seriously when they lie openly and blatantly - that is not diplomacy. Diplomacy needs clever people who can recognise sub text and currents and who are articulate without reading from a script - Starmer is completely tone deaf to those.

Vance? Vance who called Trump "America's Hitler" a few years ago? Yes, I'm sure he has a big problem with people who criticise Trump and are then polite to him.

cardibach · 28/02/2025 19:12

Mytholmroyd · 28/02/2025 18:10

Oh come on! It wasn't just 'saying something' or making carefully worded criticisms! It was insulting, probably libellous and deliberately so. That is not diplomacy or statesmanship.

They are a national embarrassment and when they were saying all this clearly never expected to be in power. Exceptionally poor judgement. I doubt very much any career diplomats would ever say such things publically before they made either to ambassador. Apart of course from the cronyism of appointing the several times disgraced Mandelson.

Which bit of that tweet isn’t accurate?
How do you feel about out the way they just treated Zelenskyy?

Thisandthatandthensome · 28/02/2025 19:16

JacquesHarlow · 28/02/2025 11:11

He did incredibly well yesterday. I agree.

The problem is that because of the naturally Right-leaning press (and Mumsnet) , no matter the good he did or does, he will be pilloried because he's a bit functionary and speaks in a stilted way.

He did well.

Trump is a narcissistic bully so careful words are needed

Mytholmroyd · 28/02/2025 19:59

Good heavens - I am no fan of Trump! The way Starmer and Lammy sucked up to him was pathetic and cringeworthy. And yes, that is made even worse by what followed with Zelensky. That should have been a meeting held in private. In fact all meetings with heads of state should probably be better in private to avoid diplomatic incidents when dealing with loose canons like Trump.

As I said, Starmer and Lammy are not statesmen and do not do the UK any favours on the world stage. They make us look weak and a soft touch. In fact, pretty much the whole cabinet is a disgraceful lot of liars and over promoted charlatans (am warming to Wes Streeting - they should chuck Starmer out and give him a go) - where have all the decent, competent politicians gone? I even found myself agreeing with George Galloway the other day FGS.

Perhaps they don't care if Trump disrespects them/the UK but if they had gravitas and dignity (and they showed none and given their previous lack of political acumen didn't exactly have a strong basis for doing so) instead of the fawning, creepy, sucking up (could you ever imagine the Queen behaving like that?) they might have had more weight and been a wise if critical friend to the US. The whole world was watching.

OneLemonDog · 28/02/2025 20:08

Mytholmroyd · 28/02/2025 19:59

Good heavens - I am no fan of Trump! The way Starmer and Lammy sucked up to him was pathetic and cringeworthy. And yes, that is made even worse by what followed with Zelensky. That should have been a meeting held in private. In fact all meetings with heads of state should probably be better in private to avoid diplomatic incidents when dealing with loose canons like Trump.

As I said, Starmer and Lammy are not statesmen and do not do the UK any favours on the world stage. They make us look weak and a soft touch. In fact, pretty much the whole cabinet is a disgraceful lot of liars and over promoted charlatans (am warming to Wes Streeting - they should chuck Starmer out and give him a go) - where have all the decent, competent politicians gone? I even found myself agreeing with George Galloway the other day FGS.

Perhaps they don't care if Trump disrespects them/the UK but if they had gravitas and dignity (and they showed none and given their previous lack of political acumen didn't exactly have a strong basis for doing so) instead of the fawning, creepy, sucking up (could you ever imagine the Queen behaving like that?) they might have had more weight and been a wise if critical friend to the US. The whole world was watching.

Of course i can imagine the Queen doing that, it was her job, and you only have to look back to the images of their meeting in 2019.

I'm sure Starmer would have liked nothing more than to read Trump the riot act, but they tried to do the best thing they could for our economy and safety. As hard as it was to watch, it was the right move.

Today's press conference has changed the picture, though.

Panterusblackish · 28/02/2025 20:28

JacquesHarlow · 28/02/2025 11:11

He did incredibly well yesterday. I agree.

The problem is that because of the naturally Right-leaning press (and Mumsnet) , no matter the good he did or does, he will be pilloried because he's a bit functionary and speaks in a stilted way.

I mean this is just rubbish, there's loads of left leaning women on Mumsnet.

I wouldn't class myself as a Starmer fan, but he did well.

Politicians aren't football teams, you don't have to pick them and support them come what may.

Mytholmroyd · 28/02/2025 20:28

The Queen did not ever behave like that with Heads of State in public in front of cameras. She was never cringingly over familiar but always polite and courteous and above all regal. Plus she would never had made the gaffes Starmer and Lammy have even if she thought what they said about Trump - am sure she thought he was an uncouth boor amongst other things. Her diplomacy was long term not the shortsighted insult throwing they engaged in. Its a truism but in a job (shadow cabinet) you should always behave as if you are doing the job you want (in government).

Why was our 'safety' on the line? This is just hyperbole. No way Trump is going to threaten the safety of the UK. How many US bases do we have here?

Anyway, had enough of this - none of you are going to convince me they looked good - maybe I'll accept they 'did the best they could' but that's because they are not competent to do better and what happened with Zelensky just makes their fawning worse!

user1471453601 · 28/02/2025 20:37

Chuchoter · 28/02/2025 11:17

Starmer just admitted Britain is being taken for a ride—again!

When Trump was talking about Ukraine, he made it clear: America has been giving away billions and getting nothing in return—but that’s about to change with a minerals deal. Then up pipes Keir Starmer to proudly declare that Britain’s billions were a gift!

So, let’s get this straight—while others are looking out for their national interests, securing deals, and making sure their money isn’t wasted, Britain is just handing over taxpayer cash with no expectation of anything in return?

Starmer isn’t negotiating for Britain—he’s grovelling. No wonder our country keeps getting mugged off on the world stage. - Darren Grimes.

What this country has done/is doing is right, not what gets us the most.

Were you not taught this? That if it benefits you or not, doing the morally right thing is what you should do?

And in the long run, it could be that helping Ukraine to defend itself, might benefit this country.

It's a sight easier to defend our selves against Russia while they are in Ukraine than to try to do it when Russia has moved further towards us.

SwedishEdith · 28/02/2025 20:42

If course she wouldn't have made any diplomatic gaffes. She was never a private citizen, becoming queen in her 20s. She was the head of state, not a politician who had had other jobs beforehand. Not remotely comparable.

OneLemonDog · 28/02/2025 20:53

Mytholmroyd · 28/02/2025 20:28

The Queen did not ever behave like that with Heads of State in public in front of cameras. She was never cringingly over familiar but always polite and courteous and above all regal. Plus she would never had made the gaffes Starmer and Lammy have even if she thought what they said about Trump - am sure she thought he was an uncouth boor amongst other things. Her diplomacy was long term not the shortsighted insult throwing they engaged in. Its a truism but in a job (shadow cabinet) you should always behave as if you are doing the job you want (in government).

Why was our 'safety' on the line? This is just hyperbole. No way Trump is going to threaten the safety of the UK. How many US bases do we have here?

Anyway, had enough of this - none of you are going to convince me they looked good - maybe I'll accept they 'did the best they could' but that's because they are not competent to do better and what happened with Zelensky just makes their fawning worse!

Our safety is on the line because European safety is on the line. Trump had precvously made clear that his US would not come to Europe's aide if it was attacked, and over Ukraine he is actively siding with the most immediate threat to our safety.

The US's functional withdrawal from NATO exponentially increases the risk of war on the continent. Obviously the UK is not among the countries at most immediate risk, but you'd have to be naive in the extreme to not realize that the loss of support from the world's most powerful military significantly increases the threat posed by the world's second most powerful military (itself, a nuclear superpower).

swimsong · 28/02/2025 22:06

Mytholmroyd · 28/02/2025 16:42

Yes - I cannot imagine her being two faced and hypocritical as Starmer and Lammy are. It just seems like they will throw out their beliefs if they won't personally benefit.

She had a spine and standards whether you agreed with them or not. Where are Tony Benn and Dennis Skinner when you need them? Proper politicians. I suspect she would have commanded a lot more respect - Trump even shut Starmer up in the press conference by saying 'That's enough' when he was waffling on. So rude and disrespectful but Starmer deserved it.

S and L were just so snivelling and lacking any dignity. I am embarrassed they represent our country tbh. Bloody Peter Mandelson too. Crooks and liars the lot of them.

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The "That's enough" comment was to the reporter who was loading a follow-up.