Starmer did well yesterday

[oceanflow]

I mean, he was never going to magic a Trump personality transformation in the space of a couple of hours. But he walked the Trump tightrope well. I found the whole thing fascinating - particularly the contrived flattery. The mode of these US diplomatic visits now reflects the way you would visit a senile, elderly relative - any other leader would find it patronising, but it's all totally lost on Trump. The flourish if the state visit invite was hilarious. I was never a fan of Starmer particularly and thought he lacked charisma as a leader. But now I'm glad to have a leader who is about the tasks at hand, not simply his own ego. AIBU?

Yes exactly! I was cackling. And it worked.

I think he did the best he could under very trying circumstances. The only way to play things with Trump is to massage his ego a bit - the “very special letter” was a clever move though cringing to watch him need to manage Trump in the way he needs to. Totally not in Starmers comfort zone but what’s needed to get anywhere with Trump. What a world we live in.

He did a good job in difficult circumstances which, I imagine, were massively outside his comfort zone.

The invite from Charles will have helped too.

You think we're getting nothing back? Entire generations of Ukrainians are getting massacred to protect the safety of the rest of Europe. I'd say that's worth a few billion quid in the long run

I do that when someone starts to rant/ramble. It’s to bring them back to the conversation.

His outburst "we do have free speech" was embarrassing. We don't. Look at all the people locked up for posting mean things on Facebook and the women questioned by police for understanding biology.

giving something VOLUNTARILY isn't being 'taken for a ride'
Do you think you are 'taking your mum for a ride' and she is being 'mugged off' if she gives you a birthday present?

being taken for a ride would be if Ukraine had promised something in exchange and didn't deliver.

Ha ha, yes that is exactly what it was like. The way he was mirroring Trump's speech patterns there was a classic.

I'm just going to repeat what I said on one of the other Starmer worshipping threads. Interesting how people perceive things differently. I saw it as an embarrassing, desperate move because Starmer knows Trump doesn't think much of the UK and the special relationship the two countries once had is long gone. I don't think for one moment Trump will forget the comments that various Labour MPs have made about him. It's just mind games and they are all playing each other.

Starmer is clever. He knows what he's doing.

We have not been taken for a ride. Ukraine was invaded by our shared enemy and is Europe's front line in the war.
We are supplying them with aid and weapons as though we were fighting, though we should have supplied more and faster. Consider therefore that we are supplying ourselves but without our soldiers dying. Nothing to charge them for.

The US on the other hand would not be directly affected. Suited them for the Ukrainians to lessen the might of the Russian army. Now that's been achieved, Trump asks for payment in the form of a terrible deal for Ukraine.

The knowledge that NATO has gained from Ukraine over the past three years is incalculable. Doubt Trump will consider that when presenting his invoice however.

It has been fascinating to observe just how much they have all been studying body language, mirroring etc with a fair bit if emergency psychology thrown in.
I and my colleagues had to work with some very difficult men sometimes and we had it all down to a fine art. It is tiring though.

I think Starmer is treading this line very well and i'm pleased he's in charge for this moment.

He did exactly what Macron did. When Trump said Europe loaned the money, Macron interrupted to say that actually no, it was not loaned, it was given.

I don't think for one moment Trump will forget the comments that various Labour MPs have made about him.

I doubt he much cares. Vance once called him America's Hitler.

He forgot Vance's comments.

Is trump expecting anything back for the hillions that have been given to Israel? Why does he only want something back from Ukraine?

There's no point trying to make sense of anything Trump says or does.

Seriously. The strategy appears to be keep him on side and ride it out.

Yes but it's embarrassing to watch all this pantomime touching and patting and mutual flattery.

I presume the reason Trump says that Chagos will work well is because we are the ones who will be shelling out for it and he won't.

Sucking up to Trump may also help when it comes to deciding trade tariffs.

Those who don't like the monarchy need to appreciate the power it had here.

It's standard linguistic psychology. If you mirror someone's words back to them they instinctively warm towards you.

What do we make of Marco Rubio? I think he might be the first to break rank - very soon. His anti Putin sentiment is well documented over the years, so what's going on? He sits there looking shell shocked amid all the Putin appeasement. What is he thinking?

I thought it was interesting in the cabinet meeting. When Trump said the thing about "is everyone happy with Elon? Because if not, you can get out" and everyone laughed and clapped Musk, Rubio didn't clap.

Yes I noticed that. I find it fascinating.