Is this hourly rate too high?

[Question285]

I’m looking for a cleaner for a couple of hours weekly. I budgeted £18-20 per hour, but I’ve received a quote of £25 per hour. This is an independent cleaner, albeit with a proper set up. AIBU to think that this is a lot?

I’m in the NW in a reasonably affluent area, but it’s not London. Also, we live in a very normal family home. It’s not a job with an NDA in a mansion.

I’ve checked some local sm groups and it seems that £25 per hour is not unheard of, so I don’t think she was trying to put us off.

I understand overheads, tax etc. come out of that, so she’s not left with £25. But I can’t help thinking that I earn less than that gross in a role that took the better part of a decade to train for. It also comes with a lot more responsibility and less flexibility than a self employed cleaner has.

Is this where things are because of minimum wage increases? I’m not saying they were a bad thing, people should be able to live off their wages. But it seems that middle earners salaries have not kept up if for a low skilled job you can earn as much as a high skilled worker.

Well, this.

I do wish self-employed people had direct access to the inner workings of a potential client's mind ("waaaaah, why is their hourly rate higher than mine when I'm so much more important than them, waaaaah!") before deciding whether to take them on. It would save a lot of time and bother. 😀

No, she thinks her job is more skilled, which it likely is.
Cleaning is important but the fact is cleaning an ordinary family home is not skilled work worthy of higher than minimum wage.

The average cleaner employed by a family is not a professionally skilled cleaner it's not a skilled job all adults can do it.
If you are talking about professional cleaning eg of operating theatres etc that's a different thing. Cleaning an ordinary home is unskilled labour.

£50 for 3 hours - London

Yeah - her job is superior to a cleaner - fact. It doesn't take years of training to do.

You might not like it - but it's true.

OP - yes I think £25/hour for a normal clean is taking the piss. If it was say oven-cleaning or something that requires special materials, then fair enough.

I pay £15

Well you can't afford one then. Or maybe you should take up a career in cleaning as you think it's so much easier and more lucrative than your big important job.

Sounds like you should maybe rethink your career and become a cleaner instead OP.

Incorrect.
As a sole trader - she will pay class 2 NICs during the year and class 4 NICs on the profits at year end
As a Ltd company - she will pay Employer AND Employee NICs. PAYE employees pay class 1 NICs.
I know, I've done both. And you don't have to be earning much before you're better off operating as a Ltd company.
And whilst her travel will be tax-deductible as it's for business purposes, it's not free. She still has the expense, she just doesn't have to pay tax out of her profits on the actual cost.

Cut your own hair if it's so simple?

For £25/hour I'd expect tiny little fat angels playing the harp in every corner of my house when she's done

We pay our cleaner £20/hour and she's great. Not like I'd do it myself, but with a small baby I just don't wanna do it anymore.

Disagree entirely. I have had many cleaners, and the worst ones are those who think 'it's not a skilled job that all adults can do'. Cleaning for over one hour on the go is a hard physical job, that most people would tire of and not do. My cleaner is a professional but sole trader, she has good equipment but is not part of a huge cleaning company. I find it insulting to say that her job is something anyone could do and is part of a superiority complex. I have had cleaners who do a poor job and they have all been those that are just doing it because they dont want to do something else. Usually cash in hand. In my area £20 - £25 is the going rate, but I am in the South.

It’s not paying NI twice, it’s two different levels of contribution based on income.

No one said her travel is free, I don’t know where you got that from.

I did some cleaning during a break from my fancypants career, i worked for an agency and got between 18 and 30/hr in my pocket. It IS a real skill, i researched and improved my techniques, i won a lot of business filling in for others' on sick/holiday but the clients preferred the job i did so i'd be given the contract instead! Anyone who thinks its easy and brainless can't be much cop at it!

She did not say that. Why are some people on here so nippy.

National minimum wage isnt based on the "worth" of someone's job though, whatever you even mean by that. Very few people need a cleaner, it's a privilege they're choosing to pay for and cleaners get to set their price as does any other self employed person. Of it's north worth it to OP to pay that for a cleaner she doesn't have to, just as she might think a car is overpriced and not "worth it" to her, doesn't mean the price is wrong.
If OP chose to go self employed, she could price herself as she chooses. It's not the cleaners fault that OPs employer seems her "skills" as worth less than this cleaner chooses to price herself.

Hourly costs for cleaners quoted are often skewed because of widespread practices re tax, holiday pay etc.

Yep this is an example of NMW driving up unskilled and low skilled jobs to the point where they're now comparable with skilled/ professional jobs. But as you say everyone needs to house themselves, feedselves etc and NMW needs to be able to pay for that. It is a bit galling though to have studied for qualifications and carry responsibility in work, have no flexibility with shifts (specific to my job in fairness) and be paid basically the same as someone with no responsibility etc, even my pension isn't good any more. I am aware I can leave my job and set up as a cleaner btw!

If it was too high people wouldn't pay it.
But they are so it clearly isn't.
I agree it's a lot but having a cleaner is a luxury.

Semantics. You said "self employed people don’t pay NI twice either" in an earlier post. They pay class 2 and 4 if sole traders and employer and employee NI if a Ltd company. That's paying NI twice in most peoples book.

One more thing to remember, those of you who have trained for 10 years etc and earn only slightly above what the cleaner is asking for, you probably have the potential to earn more as you progress so eventually your hourly rate maybe £80. The cleaner will always be on a lowish rate as she is deemed unskilled. Therefore she needs to earn as much as possible and if the market is willing to pay it good luck to her.

But "what she is EARNING" is the £25 per hour. It's probably half of that after expenses, holidays, sick time, pensions, insurance, travelling and other non chargeable time, etc. Her "earnings" are after all those things are taken account of and certainly not the amount she charges her customers.

It's on the high side. However IME someone good who charges a bit more is better value than someone less good who charges less, so I wouldn't say it's too high. You'd need to know how good she was.

What you earn is irrelevant. I also don't think skill level is the only metric- cleaning well is hard physical work and not comparable to minimum wage jobs like call centre, data entry etc.

Is your skill/qualification not one you can take self employed if the comparison you're giving is to set up as a cleaner? It's not really fair to blame NMW driving up people's pay when clearly the issue is that your employer or industry hasn't raised your wages clearly in several years of NMW is catching up on your skilled job.

Anyone working in people's homes does have a lot of responsibility if you look anywhere on MN you'll see that people are held for responsible for any damage or mistakes in a client's home and this is coming of of a self employed persons pocket or the insurance they have to pay for themselves. Given you have an employer, whatever level of responsibility you think you have, I doubt you'll be held personally liable for any losses or are expected to contribute to your employers liability insurance.

Very expensive. It is a tough job but not for that rate.