To say I can't handle this class

[Daisychain97]

I'm a trainee teacher working as a teaching assistant. I'm doing a subject specialism in maths and hope to teach year 6.

This term, I've been moved from my usual year 6 class to year 1 because the year 1 TA has left at short notice. I've gone from targeted maths 1-1s and SATs preparation to spending the entire just trying to keep the class quiet enough for the teacher to speak. It is the teacher's first year teaching and I've only been a TA for a year before this.

I can't handle the class. There are multiple children who aren't toilet trained and have accidents. Out of a class of 25, only 8 of them are actually capable of sitting quietly, listening and putting their hand up. The rest just shout out at you constantly, roll and crawl all over the floor. Some will cry and scream if they're told off and others will throw things if they're told no. It's chaotic. We have a huge amount of SEN boys in the class, but I think it's a step further than that. It seems some of these children have never been told no in their lives. I have to repeat a simple instruction 5 times for anyone to listen even when I'm speaking directly to a child. For example 'please put your pencils down'
Turns into at least 15 children shouting 'BUT IM NOT DONE,' refusing, some straight up crying at the instruction, others running around or throwing their pencil. It's unbelievable.

It was my second day in the class today and I was on the edge of tears I was so overwhelmed. I have ADHD so a lot of constant screaming and sudden noises really gets to me and every single shout and scream and thrown toy felt like a dagger in my ears. I eventually just zoned out and asked the teacher how I should be dealing with the behaviour. She was just as stuck as I am.

So what am I meant to do? Just continue being miserable? I earn basically less than minimum wage and not sure it's worth it to be honest. It's day 2 and I'm already dreading to go back tomorrow.

I can't exactly talk to the headteacher and asked to be moved because they need a TA in that class...

Bit of a rant but I'm so upset. I loved my job, I loved working with year 6. Now I'm just so overwhelmed and upset. Last year I worked with year 2,3, and 5 and loved every second. I know that a teacher should be able to handle all classes but as a TA I don't have much control or say in how this class is run so I can't change things like how I would if it was my class...

Same with ours, many parents moan that they feel they are too strict with such young children, but my daughter adores her year 1 teacher. She is kind but takes no nonsense, and the children have a clear idea of what she expects from them, praises them but also let's them know when something is unacceptable. This gives them security and confidence to learn.

Yes, there is definitely poor parenting. But there are also genuine struggles.
I had severe PND with DD1, I don't think I had any meaningful emotional/social interaction with her until she was at least 10 months, I was just robotically going through the motions of feeding, changing etc, and some days I couldn't manage that, I was so unwell. But she had a great bond with her Dad and Grandma's, and we got support from nhs etc, we were financially stable and could advicate for support. She did have speech delay, and nhs support was initially refused, but i pushed and pushed and spoke to managers and wrote letters of complaint and she got the right support, not everyone has the ability to do that. If I had been in the same scenario as a single parent during covid, no DH, no grandparents, no outside support, I cannot see how my daughter would have thrived, and it could have led to long term emotional issues for her.

Absolutely, some parents make choices which are not helpful for their child. But some are genuinely struggling with their own physical or mental health issues.

It sounds as if one of the best things you could be doing as a TA is keeping a diary where you record a few lines about say the three worst behavioural issues you faced that day - which pupil(s) were involved, what happened and what happened immediately leading up to it. The the SENCO will have the detailed evidence that they require to make a case that the school cannot currently meet the needs of those children asap and can use it to support an application for EHCPs (which most don't already have by Year 1) and the school can get the funding for more TAs for this class (even if it would be one extra shared TA and not kick in until next year - you'd still be in the good books for facilitating the process and it would actually help all of the kids in a concrete way).

I don't think it's just Ipads. I attend a story time with my son. All the other parents are very dedicated and not the sort to leave their child on an Ipad all day, there's some children there who don't have tvs at home. I appear to be the only one using discipline to teach my son how to behave in the context of the session. I get a lot of surprised looks. I'm not doing anything awful, just moving him away if he is disturbing the class with his friend for example and telling him why. He just needs to learn what type of behaviour is appropriate in what type of setting.

I'm trying to be really hot on discipline as my son is naturally very spirited. My sister is a primary teacher who taught in a international school in Spain for years and she has warned me of how challenging children in the UK can be these days comparatively to before she went to Spain and compared to children in Spain, because of lack of discipline from parents now.

It's hard though because not everyone is doing it. And as parents there is a bit of a grey area. For instance an 18 month old that wants to wonder around at story time is obviously completely different to a 4 year old who decides they want to throw the cushions around and shout with their best mate. There's a time around 2/3 where discipline really needs to begin on some level but it doesn't seem to be actively encouraged in parental guidance. The parenting narrative I see around me is very much children do what is developmentally appropriate for their age we shouldn't try to correct their behaviour but just work with it. And I do agree with that to an extent, for example it is unreasonable to expect my four year old to sit completely still for a whole 45 mins story time. He will wriggle and stand up etc... but he is capable of listening and engaging with the session for that time and he needs to know that shouting, running around and throwing cushions around ruins it for everyone else and is not acceptable, he has chosen to do those things and is definitely capable of controlling himself. Other parents not using discipline makes it even harder for me when I'm trying to, as he sees other children getting away with stuff and it isn't fair.

I'm just lucky to have a much older, very experienced teacher for a sister who gives me guidance.

Edited to apologise I seem to have quoted the wrong poster. But my point still stands that sometimes parents can be very dedicated but it doesn't always play out to very well behaved children.

Completely agree with this, I'm sick of people using lockdown as an excuse. My daughter was born right at the very start of the first lockdown. It made me even more determined to make sure we spoke to her all the time, gave her as many learning experiences as possible and took her out regularly as soon as it was allowed. The only reason kids of that age would be so behind in development is either SEN or lack of input from parents.

What has happened socially to young children ? I started school at 3 and 3/4 , I turned 4 at the end of that term. I could read and write before I started school, but even though it was a typical, smallish primary school , there were none of the behaviours you describe. A few naughtier/fidgety boys, one child who had occasional accidents. This was the end of the 60s and we did craft things but it was still structured learning, reading etc. One class teacher. We all sat cross legged for assembly, put our hands up in class etc. I didn’t go to nursery, I went straight into school as was normal then. We all knew what was expected of us and what was good or bad behaviour. Of course children misbehaved in my primary, but they absolutely knew that they were misbehaving, it sounds as though the kids in your class have no idea how they should behave.

I have a pregnant friend with a bright 2 year old. My son was potty trained (albeit with accidents at times) by 2. I asked friend if she was potty training and she said, 'Oh no, not yet.'

Why not? Her DD is sharp as a tack. Another baby on the way. Get it out of the way now, rather than leaving it until she's nearly 3 with a new baby.

I think it's just laziness.

Absolutely. I think what is missing is the telling children what is good and bad behaviour. That seems to be quite out of fashion at the moment. Kids don't know something is bad behaviour until you tell them it is. They are still learning.

Been to see the head and voiced my concerns about how it was affecting me and about safety concerns. She basically said there's nothing we can do other than what's already in place and seemed frustrated at me for voicing the concern. She said 'remember you haven't done your teacher training yet so the teacher knows best.' This is a fair point but it doesn't take a qualified teacher to recognise that something isn't working.
She essentially told me to know my place in the class. All I did was say how it was really difficult to handle, how overwhelmed I was and that we were both struggling to manage the behaviour in the classroom. Then she said 'that's what teaching's like' and told me I need to deal with it and get used to it if I want to be a teacher. She did say that myself, her and the teacher however should have a meeting to discuss some more strategies.

Jeez. I wonder if you're working at the school that I left because of this exact kind of attitude from SLT!

Please don't despair too much, my daughter's reception class is lovely, there's only 20 of them which I think makes a big difference but they all seem to be making really good progress and they put lots of videos of PE lessons, experiences they are having (i.e Chinese New Year where all the kids were sat nicely while trying new foods) and they have open afternoons where parents can come and join their kids for a while, even with the added distraction of some parents being there the teacher was always able to bring the class under control very quickly.

Hmm, well when people tell you who they are, believe then!

Do NOT take a permanent job at this school!

My mum is actually friends with the parent of a child in this class who misbehaves. I spoke to my mum last night about my struggle but didn't mention her friend's child directly. My mum said 'my friend says her daughter is far too clever for the work they're giving her so I imagine that's why she might misbehave if it's her'

I can't share details to my mum about specific children so just brushed it off but it really showed me how parents make excuses for their kids.

In reality, her friends daughter is rude, talks back, constantly talks, doesn't follow instructions and is definitely not top of the class. Crazy

Ouch. I couldn’t stay there now, knowing how unsupported you are.

That is what teaching is like and mainly because idiots like your HT are in charge

It does make a huge difference. Both mine had classes of about 20, and both their year groups are the ones with much fewer issues. The classes which are full are the ones struggling, may not be all down to the size, but there must be a link there. Both my girls have lovely well behaved classes, maybe 1 or 2 challenging children, but vast majority are well engaged most of the time.

Is is true that some children act up because the work isn't challenging them enough (I know this as that was me), but most of the time it's making excuses, parents do not want to admit that their child isn't perfect. Which means they then are not open to discussions on how to improve their child's behaviour.

I did my final teacher training placement in a class and school that sounds very familiar to your predicament. I had a mixed Y1 and 2 class and on my first day there it was an eye opener: the HT was conducting the school assembly whilst the children were getting up, running in and out of the hall and shouting. She just carried on with the assembly. There were no behaviour strategies in the class and I remember thinking this is going to be hell and I am going to ask for another school. However, I soon realised that if I could get through that placement and teach there, then I could probably teach anywhere.

We had disruptive children in the class. One day a boy brought into class a wooden spear and was going around the classroom stabbing the other children. He was sent down to the HT office. About an hour later he came back to class all smiles and said to me that the Mrs X had said he had been a good boy and I was to give him a sticker and put his name in her tea party book (each week a handful of children were invited to have tea and cake with the Head). I said I wasn't prepared to do that as whilst his behaviour may have been good enough for Mrs X it hadn't been for me.

The Head called me in and said she was disappointed to see I hadn't given this child a sticker or put his name in the book. She then went on to tell me that these were "damaged children" and needed wrapping up in cotton wool and didn't need a strict approach to their behaviour. I said I disagreed with her, but it was her school etc. A few weeks further into my placement she tells me that there is to be a meeting after school with a parent and one of the disruptive boys. I was completely blindsided and in this meeting the Head produced a written contract that she asked me to sign to say that I wouldn't discipline X again and it was to be signed by me and the parent. What could I do. I was weeks away from finishing my teacher training so had to sign it.

In class I set up some positive rewards, it slowly started to work and at the end of the placement the Head approached to me to tell me that she would very mich like me to apply for a vacancy in the school. I politely declined and said that my values didn't align with the values of that school.

It was horrendous. My mental health suffered and I felt this impending doom each day about actually being there.

You need to stay true to yourself but also see this as a learning opportunity and how not to manage a class going forward. Good luck.

Yes. This is exactly the response I thought you would get..this school has a serious leadership problem by the sounds of it. So you and teacher have no choice but to really work together...and in fairness it does sound like you will be left to get on with it which is to your advantage. You will need to decide what priorities are and go back to beginning. Which children have been identified with needs ? Get senco involved. Literally start like it's Sept tomorow..you will make an improvement.

@Brighteningwinter
if it is an academy school you can’t teach differently, you have to follow the ‘script’
you can’t do another lesson on something ie maths because the kids don’t grasp it / need to consolidate it you have to go to the next knowledge note or get ‘behind’
then get grief from slt

This. A woman who is very good with children got a job as a TA as the hours were good, but she was seriously injured and had to stop working as a TA.
Too dangerous.

If this paragon of academic intelligence was so clever, surely a Grammar or good Independent school would snap her up!

This is not impressive. I feel really cross on your behalf. It feels as though you have been fobbed off, and the road pretty much closed to you talking to the head about this in future. Do keep notes of all your interactions as they happen. You never know when they might come in useful. I hope something useful comes out of the three-way meeting.

Perhaps you need to reprogramme your thinking a bit to help manage the chaos around you: I am the TA not the teacher; I am not ultimately responsible for the class; I need to take my lead from the teacher. How about asking the teacher each day what she would like you to concentrate on? That would show the teacher that you know she is in charge and pull you away from trying to do everything. You could also spend five minutes reflecting on each day and create yourself a 'What worked today' manual so you have it as a resource to draw on once you qualify as a teacher. Having something concrete by the Summer is better than just having bad memories.

I think so me teachers are naturally “commanding”
And these are the ones kids do seem to like!
No shouting, just a presence.

It’s so interesting what makes this happen- Probably a naturally dominant but fair personality.
A couple of these I know became head teachers.

I had one of these at juniors - Mrs Booth. My daughter had one in Y2 - Mrs Hall. Both were towards the end of their careers, which may or may not be relevant.