To say I can't handle this class

[Daisychain97]

I'm a trainee teacher working as a teaching assistant. I'm doing a subject specialism in maths and hope to teach year 6.

This term, I've been moved from my usual year 6 class to year 1 because the year 1 TA has left at short notice. I've gone from targeted maths 1-1s and SATs preparation to spending the entire just trying to keep the class quiet enough for the teacher to speak. It is the teacher's first year teaching and I've only been a TA for a year before this.

I can't handle the class. There are multiple children who aren't toilet trained and have accidents. Out of a class of 25, only 8 of them are actually capable of sitting quietly, listening and putting their hand up. The rest just shout out at you constantly, roll and crawl all over the floor. Some will cry and scream if they're told off and others will throw things if they're told no. It's chaotic. We have a huge amount of SEN boys in the class, but I think it's a step further than that. It seems some of these children have never been told no in their lives. I have to repeat a simple instruction 5 times for anyone to listen even when I'm speaking directly to a child. For example 'please put your pencils down'
Turns into at least 15 children shouting 'BUT IM NOT DONE,' refusing, some straight up crying at the instruction, others running around or throwing their pencil. It's unbelievable.

It was my second day in the class today and I was on the edge of tears I was so overwhelmed. I have ADHD so a lot of constant screaming and sudden noises really gets to me and every single shout and scream and thrown toy felt like a dagger in my ears. I eventually just zoned out and asked the teacher how I should be dealing with the behaviour. She was just as stuck as I am.

So what am I meant to do? Just continue being miserable? I earn basically less than minimum wage and not sure it's worth it to be honest. It's day 2 and I'm already dreading to go back tomorrow.

I can't exactly talk to the headteacher and asked to be moved because they need a TA in that class...

Bit of a rant but I'm so upset. I loved my job, I loved working with year 6. Now I'm just so overwhelmed and upset. Last year I worked with year 2,3, and 5 and loved every second. I know that a teacher should be able to handle all classes but as a TA I don't have much control or say in how this class is run so I can't change things like how I would if it was my class...

I have not taught that age group so I may not have anything useful to add.

Can you gamify it - as the younger generation would say? If you find ways to make a game of your instructions (two claps means put your pencil down, 3 claps means sit very still etc, or something like that). Something that will grab their attention and engage them.

This. The older teachers where I worked were bullied out and almost entirely replaced with newly qualified teachers.

It doesn't sound like it's in anyone's interest - including the children - to have two inexperienced staff running such a challenging class.

I would imagine they are desperate, or the two of you wouldn't have been lumbered this way, but I would talk to the HT. Firstly they cannot later claim that they didn't know it was that bad. Secondly, it might give them more ammunition to argue that they must move a more experienced TA into that class to support the teacher.

In my experience the most experienced teachers get put in Yr 2 and Yr 6 because of SATs.

Hi @Daisychain97
I can relate. I work in a couple of classes just like yours! A fantastic teacher once recommended Bouncy Balls to try to manage classroom noise. We put it on the smart board. Bouncy Balls classroom management The children respond well to it and it has worked on those occasions when all you need is a bit of quiet! The link is above.

sounds like herding cats!
What does the class teacher say?

This does sound awful. The teacher's way isn't your way and isn't 'working' and you can't undertaking the teacher.

Have you and the teacher say down to discuss strategies?
You could start a conversation by asking how she's finding it. Hopefully she might be able to be honest.

Then maybe you could try some things together.

I'm so glad to read this thank you! So reassuring to see there are like minded people about. I'm the same with the tablet, I'm not saying we didn't use it but it's never just been the norm for her to sit on it. Same with having a 'covid kid' too, my daughter was born Nov 2020 and I agree it made toilet training easier, I don't get why it wouldn't! I remember being out shopping with my teacher friend and she bought kids underwear as her year 1 and reception class were still having accidents regularly , I was gobsmacked she's just expected to deal with it, and has to provide the spare underwear out of her own pocket. 🤯

I think it's just a sad situation all round as it isn't the kids fault that their parents don't put the effort in. To say only 8 out of 20 odd children can sit and listen is shocking. I just don't get why it's changed so much and become normal and accepted in the last few years or so 😩

I so hope the school we've chosen sounds similar to yours!

This is ridiculous, a 1 year old doesn't need to learn anything that a parent can't teach. Mine didn't go to nursery at 1 he was with me, I didn't drive, my family lived hours away and I live very rurally. We never had the tv on, he never had access to an ipad, I played with him and chatted to him and sang to him and read to him.

He was actually in Yr 9 during lockdown, he did some lessons online and used the extra time to learn more about the things he was into. I found him programming courses and games to make online and now he's working as a software engineer.

Covid didn't cause all these problems in kids IMO, poor parenting did. There are families living in the middle of the outback in Australia with no one for hundreds of miles, it doesn't make their kids into wild animals who can't manage to listen or toilet train or learn anything. Covid has become an excuse for far too much poor behaviour IMO.

Ex-School governor here.

A lot of the behavioural issues we encountered in our school seem to relate to some specific changes in DfE guidance/stipulation.
They wanted schools to accept greater numbers of SEN children because of a need to be seen to be 'inclusive' BUT were not providing any extra funding or concrete guidance on how to facilitate this. Additionally, many children coming into R were undiagnosed SEN and the SENCO spent hours and hours working through to try to get proper assessments in place so that support plans could be written.
We were fortunate that our Deputy Head at the time was ex-SENCO and we had a lot of very experienced staff. But we still had issues on a daily basis.

I'm well aware that children with special needs do need to be included in schools and where it is possible for them, to participate as much as possible in the day-to-day of classroom stuff. However, many schools just don't have the resources (material and physical staffing) to provide the necessary support to make it happen in a way that is meaningful or beneficial either to SEN or neurotypical children. It was one of the reasons I resigned. I felt as though schools were being set up to fail.

Not just a "need to be seen to be inclusive" but the lack of anywhere else to send them.

I really wish people would stop using lockdown as an excuse. There is no evidence that nursery is needed for children younger than 3. In fact quite the opposite they need the connection with their parents. What lockdown has done is given both adults and children the impression that engagement with the essential things in life is optional. It technically is optional but the consequences aren't. If you haven't toilet trained an otherwise healthy kid by age 6 then sorry but there isn't the funding for a teacher/other to literally wipe your child's bum. You will have to find a way of funding this yourself or coming to school yourself to change them. If your child is incapable of basic listening skills and being told no and there isn't a good reason for this then they have to accept the sanctions for this behaviour. It is not safe for teachers or fair to the other kids to have half the class doing whatever they want. If their parents can't cooperate with the school and reitterate this to their child then they will either need to fund more suitable education provision for their child or homeschool. It's time that parents actually parented did what's needed for the child and stopped expecting an already overwhelmed system to parent their child for them

I think Covid can be blamed on mental health issues with teens, but agree that it doesn’t explain behavioural issues in very young children

What a dreadful situation! Sounds grim .Also what happens when inevitably at the end of year the class dont pass their milestones ,or parents of the quieter DC sense whats happening.I would speak to the Head and say you are worried .It seems they are most likely aware and are being irresponsible in pairing up 2 young inexperienecd teachers .This is most unfair on both of you .Dont take any crap from her either ,saying the classes above cant be disturbed with new TAs !

@Macaroni46 just out of interest, why are ECT's normally put into year 1 or 4? I would think these are some of the hardest years to teach - or are they put there because no one else will do it!
My 2 are year 1 and year 4, and we have never felt so much stress coming from our girls school experience. Year 1 is such a huge transition from reception, even for bright children, the move to desk based learning when some have only just turned 5 is hugely challenging. And year 4 & 5 is so crucial, especially in our area which does the 11+, this is the point where they really need to focus hard on solid core skills, whilst going through big hormonal changes and being in that middle ground between a child and a teenager which leads to lots of emotions and pressures and arguments. And this is at quite an affluent state school with lots of parental support, very experienced teachers, great support staff.

Our year 1 teachers (I'm a parent) were really really firm. I found my DD's teacher a bit too firm but she was absolutely adored by the kids.

How is the teacher in terms of being firm? One look from our teacher would quieten the kids down. Always found that hugely impressive.

Good question.
I think they're not put into Reception as that's so specialised.
Year 2 and 6 are SATs so no.
Year 1 is seen as an easy year when in fact, it's a very hard year to teach and requires confidence and skill to balance the transition from early years ethos to a more formal learning style. But many SLT don't realise this.
Year 3 can also be an ECT year.
Lower key stage 2 (years 3 & 4) are more consolidation years hence putting ECTs there.
Year 5 is where a lot of the groundwork for year 6 is put in so not ideal for an ECT.
This is just in my experience so by no means gospel 🤓

It does, the current reception intake is hugely challenging because these were babies born during or soon after lockdowns where vunerable families didn't get the crucial early support needed to stop them reaching crisis point, identify developmental needs early etc.

There is a stark contrast between those who coped quite well through lockdowns and those who struggled. We were lucky, I was on mat leave and then sheltering due to my reduced immune system, through the lockdowns, and this led to really focused time with my girls (under 1 and 4), we spent lots of time on reading, commuinication, play skills and they flourished more than if I had been working full time and rushing around, my husband wfh and therefore had lots of time with them, we had a garden, books, educational toys and could stimulate them effectively. Contrast that to a single parent with mental health issues, living in a high rise flat with limited access to books etc, children receiving very limited social interaction as mum is struggling to cope and not receiving any support from services or family as not allowed to mix, these children are at high risk of social and developmental delay, and we are seeing that now in the current intake into early years.

I was very firm when I taught year 1 with clear boundaries and high expectations of behaviour. I was also warm, kind, affectionate and fair with a subtle sense of humour . I was very experienced and well regarded by parents and (most) of SLT (having been a deputy and head myself) and so I was able to insist upon standards of behaviour. But it was not easy and was relentless. I often felt I was failing the children as so much time was spent on managing the behaviour of a minority (but quite a sizeable minority ie 8-10 children) and often the behaviour was not as good as I would've liked. But when the class moved up, I realised how much control I had had compared to their year 2 teacher who was all about fun and being chilled.

That makes sense. There is only 1 ECT in my daughters school, she was placed in year 3, which I can understand, my daughter had her last year and definitely didn't make much progress, luckily has great teachers now in year 4 so is flying now. It's a hard thing for schools to balance where they place less experienced staff.

As an ECT my first class was Y6, which was fine by me because I prefer upper KS2. Problem was they were completely unmanageable. Lots of behaviour and development issues. 2 couldn't read or write, several working at Y1/2 level, another few at Y3/4, then the usual Y6 spread, including a few who would cry anytime they had to do anything independently, another who would smash stuff up and had a den at the back of the class (desk covered with a sheet) to hide in. One TA for approximately a third of lessons.
How do you teach a lesson to that lot all at the same time? It's impossible and I feel I was stitched up and set up to fail. That question to my mentor would be met with "That's teaching!". I eventually told them to stick teaching up their arse and quit.

There is no evidence that nursery is needed for children younger than 3.

I agree. I think parent stress during lockdown could be a factor though.
New mothers without usual support systems.
No opportunities to socialise and learn from other parents etc.
Parents who are worried about their health, jobs etc. and simply have less headspace for their child.
I don't think these factors can be ignored.
Tiny babies adopted at birth can have attachment issues as children so we do know that early trauma plays a part.
Unavailable/angry/sad/scared parents will affect a child.

Screen time is having such a big impact on these kids as well. It's so complex.. I don't know what can be done to support parents better to even recognise that there are problems never mind get them on board with addressing them.

My first thought was what was going on in the reception class. It is in reception that the training to sit down, listen to a story, sing songs, play little games etc.begins Also activities in a hall probably where children can learn to find a space, sit down when music stops etc etc etc. The way the children begin their day should be one where the children know what to do when they come in and this familiarity allows for a calm beginning to the day. In the school I taught for the longest period the teacher started with either the nursery(4year olds) or the 5 year olds (reception). We moved around the school with the same children. It was only in year 1 that the ages were mixed up a little so younger and older were balanced in both classes. We only said goodbye to the children when they went to junior school. The classes were usually 30 children. It was a multicultural school with a very mixed intake and it was lovely. This doesn’t help you but think a talk with the reception teacher about what the children were accustomed to doing in that class would be helpful. The teacher sounds as if she does need help and this should be given without fear that she feels undermined or inadequate. Perhaps give this a week or two and you may well become accustomed to the very different problems of a different age group. You can have such fun when teaching younger children if imagination and common sense are used. Best plan aim to encourage them to feel successful with lots of praise for all effort made.

Covid can possibly be responsible for issues where parents are unable to toilet train or ‘discipline’ ,which is probably a very unpopular word, for various reasons.However I think the word unwilling in most cases is more appropriate. It’s strange how up until a few years ago children were expected to be out of nappies around two, before disposables were available at a reasonable price here. It’s also strange that before I retired the school nursery took in many children who apparently ‘weren’t ready to toilet train’ but got them out of nappies in a few weeks even with 30 children in a class.

i have to agree with posters who say many people now think someone else should do anything they can’t deal with, and it’s usually schools who pick up the slack to the detriment of staff morale and other children’s’ education.