To wonder what will happen about the government's 'free' breakfast club proposal?!

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They have been talking a lot today about saving families £450 a year, but I just can't see how this is going to work?

They are paying 60p per child per day, which might pay for a Weetabix and a bit of toast, but doesn't take into account the staffing (and any energy costs) that this will require!

We already have a small school with a successful breakfast club running, with smallish numbers but all can sit down and eat together. Parents pay a reasonable amount for it and this pays for 1/2 members of staff, depending on numbers. If this was opened up to all parents as a free option, we simply wouldn't have enough space to put everyone in the hall-it would be mayhem.

The school budget doesn't have any spare cash in it for TA staffing costs (normally paid for by parents paying) so where are schools expected to find this money from?

Okay they can do some drawing and listen to music.
A quick sweep round a classroom would take about 5 minutes.

It’s not because the government are obliged to feed everybody’s children, it’s more that they can’t win. If breakfast was just provided for the most deprived kids then you get the well off parents moaning ‘why should I pay and others get it free, I work hard and pay tax’ etc etc, the usual trope, whereas If they provide for all to keep everyone happy, you then get people moaning that it’s wasteful because better off parents can afford it.

It also has other benefits, it is cheap and inclusive so no kids stand out for being ‘poor’, and even if you come from a well off family, that doesn’t necessarily mean you always have time to eat in the mornings so best to try to ensure everybody is set for the day.

What about children with allergies? One plate wouldn't work unfortunately.

They get theirs on a paper plate with cling film on at lunch. The kitchen would do the same for the bagels I suppose but there are no children who can't have bagels and butter.

There's paper towels for makeshift plates. There just doesn't seem to be a mess. Not as much mess as the milk with the straw wrappers and the satsumas peels and apple cores make at 11am anyway.

Can you imagine training to be a teacher, spending hours each week planning lessons etc - and every morning you're getting down on your hands and knees with a dustpan and brush, weaving your way around thirty small chairs and half a dozen tables, and later finding bits of toast jammed here and there? I mean, yes, we could ask teachers to "just" pass round some toast and plates, "just" supervise thirty young children as they eat, "just" have the plates collected, "just" have them sent off to be cleaned, "just" do a quick sweep... But as all these "justs" snowball, we should ask whether it's right to cut into the busy school day with something that should have been done before it began. It's hard enough to retain teachers already. And it's not why I send my children to school.

Honestly, it’s absolutely grim that children are eating bits of bagel, off one large communal plate, in their classrooms, whilst getting greasy fingers all over their books. Classrooms are a learning environment. Meals (including breakfast), should be eaten at a table, (not a desk), off their own plate, (so they are not dropping crumbs everywhere), whilst socialising with other people. During registration, children should be focused on their teacher, who will be taking registration, giving out notices, getting everyone in the right mind set for the day ahead.

Eating breakfast at home, or at breakfast club (however that operates), fine. Eating bits of bagel in their classrooms is akin to eating in front of the TV.

A lot of kids just aren't hungry when they get up. It was always an effort to get my son to eat breakfast at 7.30am.

It has also been proven that children learn better on a full stomach. A better educated society is a benefit to all (apart from the oligarchs who want to keep populations as undereducated as possible).

Thank you for putting it much better than I could have!

Support staff have on-costs: LGPS @28% and unfunded NI increase.

You cannot have one person running it because what happens if they are sick? Who minds the kids whilst that person is supervising meal prep. Whilst WRAC doesn't have the same ratio requirements as school, you can't safely run a club of 50 kids from R to 6 with one person.

For the person picking up the breakfast club food, they would need to tell their car insurance.

These aren't "oh it's easy" considerations.

I have NO issue with WRAC, but it's not as easy as some out of touch political genius with zero understanding of school budgets makes it sound on Sunday morning radio.

Of course it is but it's part of being a responsible parent to ensure your child goes to school having had breakfast! Doing this just takes responsibility off parents and onto the state.

Fully agree that this is about forcing parents to work more hours not feeding children. Universal credit will be able to sanction more people as "childcare is available", even if it's rubbish and not properly accessible for some. My DS has additional needs (awaiting formal diagnosis) and can't cope with breakfast club as it consists of lots of people milling around in the hall and eating "strange" food with others (he has familiar food in his pack up for lunch).

Oh, and we tried the "free bagel" shizzle.

We needed two four slice toasters, three staff, a fucking freezer, and then the same staff to stand out at the gate handing out. And we needed no gluten bagels, no sesame bagels so mmm just a bit of plain bagel.

Then the site team spent half an hour clearing up half chewed bagel from the playground so PE could start.

It's like the same people that think "it looks so easy to own a cafe" have the same approach.

THIS! This is the real motivation behind it!

Rather than free breakfast I think they missed a trick with free school lunches for all children. Easier to implement. Still feeding hungry children.
But as others have put, a breakfast club and therefore earlier drop off is all about getting people to supposedly work.

Sounds very sensible!
I guess it could be wholemeal toast for all the bagel haters on this thread!

(Really want a cinnamon and raisin bagel now!)

Well, toasted buttery bagels whilst reading books and doing the register in the classroom is unlikely to be any part of this plan anyway. It's all about offering half an hour of childcare before the school day starts so won't be anything to do with children being in class with their class teacher.

It will be interesting seeing how the early adopters find the scheme.

Plenty of people are asking!

Imo it’s a mixture of poverty and problematic home environments. Plus easing kids into the school day with breakfast was seen at the start of this scheme as potentially being helpful for kids routinely late for school or school refusing. And iirc also mooted as benefiting working parents.

I work at a food charity. We do breakfast/snack items for a local secondary. The standard offering is 20kg of bananas a week, which I buy wholesale at around £19/box. There’s a huge need.

Kids who are routinely late/school refusing aren't going to be tempted back with a slice of toast!

I agree with you. It’s not my take but one of the potential benefits mooted when the scheme was announced.

More bollocks from BP then

I think what the poster has said above is extremely common. I have one who won’t eat breakfast and one who does.

the one who won’t just sits there not eating whilst we rush around getting ready and reminding her to eat constantly- but time runs out and you just have to leave for school. Then no food has been eaten. That’s massively common.

im almost certain she’d eat in a room with friends tho.

i doubt that (at a population level) it’s common for parents not to be able to afford breakfast. Many more parents either leave too early to make sure anything is eaten, or have the same battles I’ve described

It is a battle, but it's just tough luck and they can go hungry till snack time at 10.30am ish if they really don't eat. I also had one like this, and even when we did breakfast club he wouldn't eat there.

I get annoyed about this stuff.

I am a working parent. There is already morning childcare provision available, which i can afford. I don't use breakfast club because i think its too long a day for children to regularly be in where they get such low levels of adult engagement.

They are already in school at 15 to 1 or 30 to 1 ratios from 8.30 to 3.30. Many are then in clubs or childcare from 3.30 to 6.

When are these children supposed to get time with parents who can talk to them, hear them read etc?

Instead of providing more and more and more childcare, the government should be facilitating both mothers and fathers of younger children to work a little less. Encourage employers to create job shares and 25 hour roles. There is a mental health crisis among a generation of children, our children clearly need more parenting. Educators and childcare staff cannot raise our children. We can't keep farming them out to ever longer hours of childcare with 10 kids to only 1 adult who barely knows them.

The government need to remember, these kids are the workers of the future. The productivity crisis is a long game, the best solution is for us to be a little more present for children in the crucial early years and give them the resilience and confidence that will enable them to be the workforce of the future. We need the future entrepeneurs who will take a risk, explore a new idea, not anxious, emotionally stunted individuals.

Not to mention - many women leave the workforce entirely when forced to choose between time with their kids mon-fri and a job, due to long hours/commutes.

You would actually get more women/parents working if more part time was a default.

That would be difficult for some kids who may not have eaten since the evening before. I know I can't concentrate when my stomach is growling loudly. So a half day of school wasted and may cause behavioural problems and disruption.

At the rate we’re going, schools will be expected to provide dinner and baths for children soon.