Page 6 | To not understand why Katharine Birbalsingh is so controversial

TemporaryPosition · 2025-02-22T12:34:21+00:00

Just that. Am I being unreasonable in thinking the results she achieves at her school and start in life her students get which they likely otherwise wouldn't - is something to be celebrated and perhaps we should look to what's going wrong in schools which face the the same socioeconomic challenges but get far poorer results. Surely I'm not being unreasonable to wonder this.

poetryandwine · 23/02/2025 12:58

Ddakji · 22/02/2025 20:33

She was asked a question and gave an honest answer according to her own experience and the research.

Should the question not have been asked? Should she have lied?

I can’t imagine why a 15 year old would be put off doing physics a level because of what she said. I would have thought her own teachers, parents and peers would have more influence.

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What research? The well known statistics? I would be grateful for sources

noblegiraffe · 23/02/2025 12:59

GrammarTeacher · 23/02/2025 12:58

The problem I see is that (and to be fair this is not just a Michaela issue) there seems to be little understanding that different subjects are different.
English isn’t linear in the same way that Maths learning can be and attempts to make it so have cost student numbers at A Level and beyond.
It’s the total regimentation, ideology of the leader, and anti-family policies for staff that really put me off though

Michaela does seem to be run like a cult.

poetryandwine · 23/02/2025 13:00

PS Obviously I am aware of the statistics. I mean I would be grateful for quality sources on why girls do less FM, @Ddakji

TIA

ByGraceAlone · 23/02/2025 13:03

TemporaryPosition · 22/02/2025 22:30

Firstly, what's wrong with being a Marxist? Secondly, Phillipson is not a Marxist.

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What's wrong with being a Marxist???

Dear God.

Maybe 90 million deaths as a result of Marxist regimes??

If these are the idiotic views of the teachers who oppose her we've got a lot more to worry about than whether all kids get the option of drama at GCSE.

noblegiraffe · 23/02/2025 13:03

poetryandwine · 23/02/2025 13:00

PS Obviously I am aware of the statistics. I mean I would be grateful for quality sources on why girls do less FM, @Ddakji

TIA

One of the reasons is that girls outperform boys at every GCSE apart from maths and physics. When it comes to picking A-level options, girls have more choice as a result. Boys will be more likely to be funnelled into picking maths because that's their 'best subject'.

IdaGlossop · 23/02/2025 13:06

noblegiraffe · 23/02/2025 12:07

Those who say that Michaela gets those amazing results because they select their intake and do fewer GCSEs are being unfair (or perhaps biased). From what I've heard about the teaching (for maths in particular), the curriculum is incredibly well thought-through. The school started from scratch which I think gave them a lot of time to make sure everything was sequenced properly, methods were standardised and followed on from what had been taught before.

The school is also set up to maximise learning time. The routines mean that far less time is lost to fannying around getting to lessons, getting equipment out, endlessly repeating instructions to kids who haven't paid attention etc etc.

I know kids would do better in my school if they had to march in silence to their next lesson instead of hanging around chatting to their mates. An unbelievable amount of learning time is lost due to lateness. However, I also know that we would not be able to implement silent corridors in my school because our parents wouldn't stand for it, they are extremely resistant to anything authoritarian.

The starting from scratch is important from the point of view of the culture of the school, not just the way the teaching of the curriculum is taught. The approach to discipline and expectations of pupils have been in place from day 1, at Michaela and at Mercia in Sheffield so pupils and parents know what they are signing up to. Changing the culture is tough in any organisation. It's interesting that some parents push back when schools change just one thing in a Michaela direction - banning mobile phones, locking the toilets during lesson time.

Reugny · 23/02/2025 13:09

TemporaryPosition · 22/02/2025 12:52

What's wrong with Jordan Peterson

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There is a review in The Guardian from one of the former archbishops on one of Peterson's books. (If you aren't aware CofE clergy people study theology.)

Let's just say Peterson didn't do sufficient research on what he was writing about. This seems to be a general complaint about his academic work.

poetryandwine · 23/02/2025 13:17

Hi, everyone -

I must correct myself on the potential Michaela numbers for science A levels. It never occurred to me that Michaela would allow students into science A levels from Double Science, because of the data in my next paragraph. For background, Double Science covers roughly 2/3 the material from each of Biology, Chemistry, Physics. Anecdotally many teachers and schools allow it as an A level prerequisite and of course many pupils succeed.

However, in Progression from GCSE to A Level by M Carroll and T Gill (^ Cambridge Assessment, 16 Jan 2023) we have the following statistics on A level results following Triple Science (3 single science GCSEs ) vs Double Science taken by over 95% of Michaela pupils:
(Table, p10)

Grade A star/A following

Grade 8+ at Biology: 70%
Grade (8-8)+at Double Science: 49%

Grade 8+ at Chemistry:

poetryandwine · 23/02/2025 13:18

Accidentally posted, to be continued

twistyizzy · 23/02/2025 13:18

GrammarTeacher · 23/02/2025 12:58

The problem I see is that (and to be fair this is not just a Michaela issue) there seems to be little understanding that different subjects are different.
English isn’t linear in the same way that Maths learning can be and attempts to make it so have cost student numbers at A Level and beyond.
It’s the total regimentation, ideology of the leader, and anti-family policies for staff that really put me off though

Which "anti family" policies?

Reugny · 23/02/2025 13:20

Ddakji · 22/02/2025 18:49

Because she doesn’t fit into the liberal left that dominates education in this country. She came to prominence after speaking as a Tory party conference which gave those liberal lefties a fit of the vapours.

She doesn’t like the culture of low expectations especially for ethnic minorities.

Most people don’t have X so what she posts there is irrelevant to most. Not everything she says is controversial, and what counts as controversial is subjective.

She actually has low expectations for some people especially girls.

She believes girls can't do physics and maths. She also believes that some pupils simply can't achieve due to their backgrounds.

Btw I couldn't send my DD to a school were she is in charge because my DD likes music and maths. This combination isn't rare in my family.

twistyizzy · 23/02/2025 13:23

Reugny · 23/02/2025 13:20

She actually has low expectations for some people especially girls.

She believes girls can't do physics and maths. She also believes that some pupils simply can't achieve due to their backgrounds.

Btw I couldn't send my DD to a school were she is in charge because my DD likes music and maths. This combination isn't rare in my family.

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If she believes these things then how does the school consistently achieve highest GCSE grades for a non-selevtive state school in UK? Because presumably approx 50% of those kids achieving do many 7s+ are girls......

ByGraceAlone · 23/02/2025 13:23

Reugny · 23/02/2025 13:09

There is a review in The Guardian from one of the former archbishops on one of Peterson's books. (If you aren't aware CofE clergy people study theology.)

Let's just say Peterson didn't do sufficient research on what he was writing about. This seems to be a general complaint about his academic work.

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Jordan Peterson is an exceptionally brilliant professor of psychology, and cultural critic.

He uses jungian theory to analyse biblical texts and culturalstories. You can look at his lectures on YouTube.

Lots of people have found his approaches have led them to change their lives in many positive ways but some people don't seem to like him. Usually not saying why like on this thread.

At least the CofE vicar in the guardian gave a reason I suppose. But I'm not sure one vicar not rating JPs theology is a good evidence of his and Katherine Birbalsings evilness?

Nothing JP has said has led to evil regimes with millions of deaths, so you'd hope he'd be less hated than Marx by educationalists. But apparently not.

poetryandwine · 23/02/2025 13:29

Continued

Grade 8+ at Chemistry: 65%
Grade (8-8)+ at Double Science: 44%

Grade 8+ at Physics: 63%
Grade (8-8)+ at Double Science 46%

These increases are huge. Michaela is not following proven best practice in science teaching

poetryandwine · 23/02/2025 13:32

noblegiraffe · 23/02/2025 13:03

One of the reasons is that girls outperform boys at every GCSE apart from maths and physics. When it comes to picking A-level options, girls have more choice as a result. Boys will be more likely to be funnelled into picking maths because that's their 'best subject'.

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Thanks, @noblegiraffe

noblegiraffe · 23/02/2025 13:34

twistyizzy · 23/02/2025 13:18

Which "anti family" policies?

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I think the timings of staff meetings would make it difficult for anyone with childcare responsibilities to work there.

Reugny · 23/02/2025 13:34

ByGraceAlone · 23/02/2025 13:23

Jordan Peterson is an exceptionally brilliant professor of psychology, and cultural critic.

He uses jungian theory to analyse biblical texts and culturalstories. You can look at his lectures on YouTube.

Lots of people have found his approaches have led them to change their lives in many positive ways but some people don't seem to like him. Usually not saying why like on this thread.

At least the CofE vicar in the guardian gave a reason I suppose. But I'm not sure one vicar not rating JPs theology is a good evidence of his and Katherine Birbalsings evilness?

Nothing JP has said has led to evil regimes with millions of deaths, so you'd hope he'd be less hated than Marx by educationalists. But apparently not.

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It wasn't a vicar it was a former archbishop, and the book was on more than Christianity.

In regards to KB I had a similar controversial head when I was at school. However the people who heard of my head were educationalists including teachers. So random parents didn't get to hear my head's views unless they deliberately sought them out. (I've since found papers on my head's views.)

TooBigForMyBoots · 23/02/2025 13:38

TemporaryPosition · 22/02/2025 22:32

I think she perhaps means 'cultural Marxist'. Another disputed term... and I don't want to put words is anyones mouths or incorrectly interpret what they said.

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By disputed do you mean "antisemetic"? Cultural Marxism is a far right, antisemetic, conspiracy theory.

ByGraceAlone · 23/02/2025 13:38

Reugny · 23/02/2025 13:34

It wasn't a vicar it was a former archbishop, and the book was on more than Christianity.

In regards to KB I had a similar controversial head when I was at school. However the people who heard of my head were educationalists including teachers. So random parents didn't get to hear my head's views unless they deliberately sought them out. (I've since found papers on my head's views.)

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Ah if a former archbishop critiques one of books then head teachers who speak him are obviously bad.

Good logic and evidence.

Reugny · 23/02/2025 13:39

ByGraceAlone · 23/02/2025 13:38

Ah if a former archbishop critiques one of books then head teachers who speak him are obviously bad.

Good logic and evidence.

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You are deliberately confusing two subjects and you know you are.

ByGraceAlone · 23/02/2025 14:09

Reugny · 23/02/2025 13:39

You are deliberately confusing two subjects and you know you are.

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Nope.
This former archbishop has so far been the only evidence provided on the thread for the ludicrous claims that Katherine Birbalsinghs school is bad because she talks to Jordan Peterson.

Personally I think any claims of evil by association are unjustifiable a former archbishop critiquing his book in the guardian seems a particularly pathetic reason.

Whoarethoseguys · 23/02/2025 14:10

twistyizzy · 23/02/2025 13:23

If she believes these things then how does the school consistently achieve highest GCSE grades for a non-selevtive state school in UK? Because presumably approx 50% of those kids achieving do many 7s+ are girls......

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Because in a way it actually is selective. It is a free school and only parents who think their children will benefit from such an approach will send their children there.
I also think it has a higher exclusion rate than anywhere else. So children who don't fit in are expelled
The sixth form is selective.

Ddakji · 23/02/2025 14:12

poetryandwine · 23/02/2025 13:00

PS Obviously I am aware of the statistics. I mean I would be grateful for quality sources on why girls do less FM, @Ddakji

TIA

I don’t know why and nor does KB. She didn’t say they couldn’t, just that they didn’t and she didn’t know why.

Maybe google her words?

poetryandwine · 23/02/2025 14:13

Ddakji · 23/02/2025 14:12

I don’t know why and nor does KB. She didn’t say they couldn’t, just that they didn’t and she didn’t know why.

Maybe google her words?

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I have. I thought she was very feeble.

Ddakji · 23/02/2025 14:14

Reugny · 23/02/2025 13:20

She actually has low expectations for some people especially girls.

She believes girls can't do physics and maths. She also believes that some pupils simply can't achieve due to their backgrounds.

Btw I couldn't send my DD to a school were she is in charge because my DD likes music and maths. This combination isn't rare in my family.

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Where did she say she believed girls can’t do physics and maths? Because in the talk she gave covering this, she reported that girls didn’t do physics a level in great numbers (a fact), she didn’t know why but posited that they didn’t want to do the harder maths. She also said that 16% of girls did do physics a levels at Michaela.

None of which adds up to “girls can’t do physics and maths” in my understanding.