To think that most “self-made” people had way more help than they admit?

[ArtfulTealCrab]

Every successful person loves to talk about their “hard work” and “grit,” but they leave out the rich parents, private schools, and family connections. Is true self-made success even possible?

@ArtfulTealCrab , this question comes up again and again; give me strength.
It’s asked by those with a defeatist attitude in my opinion and that saddens me because you can come from nothing and do very well.
My husband and I came from working class backgrounds our families had no advantages. Our parents gave us nothing, they had nothing to give. We genuinely worked really hard, sacrificed our time beyond the norm and took risks and did well for ourselves. We are retired now and worth well over 5 million, not Lord Sugar territory (who by the way is also self made) but extremely comfortable. We’ve been already this year to Costa Rica our next holiday is an African safari, we’re popping to Spain over the summer followed by a Baltic cruise in September, business class flights of course. We live in a beautiful home next to the Thames and want for nothing.
Stop believing the lie that socialism tells you. You are not chained to the circumstances you were born to. There is no mythical pie that the privileged hoard most of. Go off and work relentlessly, take huge risks, make sacrifices; grow your own pie!

Then you are disregarding the weight of centuries of sociological evdience

Gosh, my husband didn’t. He’s just really clever and really determined.

@Icanthinkformyselfthanks So you were both totally financially on your own once leaving school with no safety net?

@JoyousGreyOrca , we both left school at 16, my husband is a couple of years older than me. We stayed at our parent’s homes paying rent until we moved in together when I was 18. We literally built our wealth from nothing and received no help whatsoever along the way.

Every successful person? Surely you know that's not true.

And old boyfriend of mine is a self made millionaire.

He went to grammar school and I went to the best comp in the area. He came to my school for 6th form which is where we met. He lived in my local area but in the large country house/estate because his dad was already successful in his own business.

Whilst he won't have struggled, it's not these material things that have helped him the most. What has helped him the most is a deep seated self assurance and confidence.

He is a lovely man. Genuinely, really lovely. No drama in his life. He likes people and they like him. He runs his own business and takes time to volunteer and organise/run community events. Everyone knows him locally. He's just an all round good egg - generous with both his time and money.

He has never had anything that made him doubt his worth or his place in the world. It's always felt like a pretty safe place for him and, when it hasn't been, he's had his family around him to support him emotionally.

It's just his personality and his character. He works really bloody hard, sees and siezes opportunities and, if something goes wrong, gets up, dusts himself off and gets on with it.

I was talking to him last year at a local community event he had organised and he was saying he had to get to bed early because he was up at 5 the following day as he'd volunteered to help at someone else's charity event somewhere across the country. He's always busy, always doing something, has made his own connections and created hos own opportunities. I don't know how he manages it! 😁

Successful people often just have a completely different mindset and approach to life.

(His business is completely different to his dad's. There won't be any contacts he has made though his dad's business that will have helped him in his. They couldn't be more different).

We genuinely worked really hard, sacrificed our time beyond the norm and took risks and did well for ourselves.

I think this is probably key.

There's a great Holly McNish poem about this!

DH and I both earn well into 6 figures in very different roles. Neither of us had any parental financial support, have never received any inheritance and never had any networking benefits.

I’d argue that knowing we were not going to get any support made us both more focused on sorting things out ourselves as we had nobody else to turn to.

There's a wealthy bloke in our local town who's "self made" - his fiancé's dad gave him a job in his successful company when he was 18 and he eventually took over the company when he retired.

Clearly he did a decent job but without that leg up he probably wouldn't be where he is now.

YANBU. I really dislike it when people say 'I worked hard for my money' - There are plenty of people that work incredibly hard and can't buy food at the end of the month.

I think one of the following always plays a factor in wealth: luck, selfish decision making, family help.

I don't think Elon Musk, Jeff Bezos or Alan Sugar are 'nice' or kind people.

It is not something that is possible for everyone.

Yes.

We are wealthy and successful despite our circumstances. My husband particularly came from reverse snobbery background and my family were piss poor refugees living in racist inner city London. Where I was brought up.

It was sheer determination to get up and out of those circa that drove us. No family help, yes using beer crates as furniture until loans were paid off. Our employees driving better cars than us, making sure their wages and mortgages were paid off before our own.

But yes luck and timing were occasionally in our favour - not always though. We've taken risks, made mistakes, had so much personal tragedy and trauma alongside it.

But we've stuck to our path. Not defined ourselves by others' positions and outlook.

If you're feeling a bit resentful of others that have done well you would do well to be inspired rather than bring them down.

I will be giving my children every leg up that you describe.

I mean, it definitely helps to have connections, a financial safety net and access to resources doesn't it. I don't think it's necessary less impressive for someone who's had some help, but i do hate those who create a false narrative around being self made when there's zero shame or anything wrong with either acknowledging the privilege or just not mentioning it.

Not sure anyone has mentioned family circumstances either - my mum stayed at home with us as kids so my dad could work 24/7. Think 4 and 5 am starts to drive from one end of the country and back in a day.

If he had needed to do school pick up/drop off this wouldn’t have been possible. And that’s just not affordable for most families now. And also if my mum hadn’t shared his ambition it would have (and did, but they got through it) caused major problems with their marriage.

Hard work I think is key but I don’t think it always equates to success. But for people who have worked hard and found success I think it’s understandable that they make the connection because that’s been their experience.

But by hard work I think it needs to be a willingness to do what other people won’t. So in our case it was working weekends catching up with paperwork so we had to be very quiet around wherever he was working. Sitting for 2 hours on holiday ready to go out for dinner waiting for him to get off the phone.

It’s very easy to only look at the end result. It hasn’t always been an easy journey to get there though.

I agree that it's not something that is possible for everyone. Let's not be coy about it. Some people lack the intellectual capacity, the courage, the opportunity, the motivation... Life choices they have made close doors to them. Some people take easier and already forged paths.

But some people make their own opportunities, some people don't listen to the naysayers, some people are driven and determined and highly motivated to achieve a different outcome. Some people are very focused and mindful of the life choices they make. Some people take risks and don't play it safe. Rather than focusing on what could go wrong, they focus on what could go right.

Some of it might come down to privilege for some people but not all.

And, yes, lots of people work hard but someone who always and only ever works hard for someone else is never going to be 'self made'.

No, I don't think you are correct, although @worriedrelative makes a very valid point about privilege.

What do you mean by 'self made'? Do you mean people who succeed off their own bat (leading ordinary lives), or do you mean people who become millionaires? I've known both types, which is why I think 'true self made success' is possible.

I agree with those who say sometimes people do make it from scratch on their own but the majority have some kind of help and may or may not realise it.

A background where there's a backup plan eg parents who can support their offspring so if it all goes wrong they won't be homeless and starving, a loan from a relative because banks wouldn't provide one fir a startup business, free childcare from a relative, a family connection with someone significant in the chosen field, even just supportive parents helping with startup paperwork or giving lifts to far away meetings that could be really important etc.

One business man my friends dad knew was a highly successful car dealer. Mega millionaire. But apparently he was a jumped up little nobody who sold dodgy cars and ripped people off at first before his business expanded into multiple garages and trading standards laws came into force. Yet he "did it himself". Off the backs of people who he trampled over in his haste to profit.

My husband was born into poverty, mother was a cleaner in a factory, father had died when my husband was 12. No money for anything.

his mother died when he was in his 20s of a cruel disease.

he was the first in his family to go to uni and worked all the way through. There was perhaps an element of luck in that he chose something that he is very good at… But I honestly think that that’s about as far as you could stretch that theory. He works incredibly incredibly hard, long hours, a lot of responsibility… (I work very hard too!)

He is now head of tech / high earner and we have a lovely home and two wonderful girls. I would call that rags to riches.

however i do think you are right in that many many people down play how much help they have had.

Totally agree. I grew up in what would be defined as a lower mc family: local independent day school funded through family’s business (which was always very unstable), but there was absolutely no money besides, no safety net, no nothing.
I grew up with a constant knot of worry in my tummy about money and never feeling enough.
On the plus side, it gave me tremendous drive and motivation to make money and make something of myself. But I still feel inadequate inside as I just don’t have the patina of a comfortable upbringing - I don’t ski, I don’t play tennis, I find it very difficult to switch off and relax.

My husband grew up in a very ostensibly u mc family - leading public school, shooting etc - but his school fees were paid by a family member and they were the ‘poor mice’ family members. He too in turn worked his socks off and is now a multi millionaire.

Despite our different backgrounds, the one thing that unites us is this shared sense of insecurity, hard work ethic and drive.
But we are both very, very conscious of the privilege and huge safety net that we both now have. That is invaluable.

Stop believing the lie that socialism tells you. You are not chained to the circumstances you were born to. There is no mythical pie that the privileged hoard most of. Go off and work relentlessly, take huge risks, make sacrifices; grow your own pie!
@Icanthinkformyselfthanks

That would lead to many people being penniless and homeless - great risks don't always pay off. And that's not what socialism tells us, socialism just recognises that not everyone can achieve that - I mean it's not actually possible for everyone to be rich, even if everyone worked relentlessly, took huge risks etc. and had the same drive and ambition and intelligence. For a start many rich people need to employ people, society needs certain jobs filled that you don't get rich doing - or do you want there to be no cleaners, teachers, nurses, care workers, delivery drivers, factory & warehouse workers...

I think that, leaving financial help out of it, some people fail to credit the fact that they had support from parents or spouse in terms of being allowed to stay in the family home and not being expected to contribute financially while they got their start-up off the ground, or studied for another career.

Those things are invaluable. If you are not able to do those things, then you have much less chance of 'self-making'.

Everyone gets a mix of good & bad luck, a mix of influences and assets.

Is the rich kid who has no work ethic and a taste for cocaine more privileged than a poor kid with loving, supportive parents, who lands a place at an outstanding grammar school.

It's impossible to factor in every element. Some have great genes, some are born into an affluent society or in a period with no wars. Some have beauty, charm, talent, a natural ability to sell ....

I studied with a girl whose dad was absurdly wealthy but had 'done it off his own back' and expected her to do the same. He refused to help her in any way. She worked as an escort while studying law to cover her fees and bills. She'd been to an expensive school, she's a city solicitor now but I didn't envy her. I wouldn't have done what she did, for any money.

Calling someone privileged simple because daddy is rich, is too simplistic.

Having advantages makes it massively easier to build a basically successful life. That doesn't mean it's impossible to succeed without those advantages but it's much much rarer and harder.

That said, there is an interesting phenomenon among the uber successful - both self-made multimillionaire, entrepreneurs and leaders of movements/ countries. There is a disproportionate number of those who have suffered badly - either from living with a setback like dyslexia k ok easing to failure in conventional academics, or losing a parent young. The theory is that these things can build resilience, toughness, a determination to succeed, and almost force a 'think outside the box' willingness to go against the grain- all vital qualities for growing exponentially or innovating. That said, these populations are also disproportionate in the prison system.... there really does seem to be some truth in the 'if it doesn't break you it will make you stronger' concept . Malcolm Gladwell's 'Outliers" and "David and Goliath' are really interesting reads on this.

Rags to riches stories are everywhere, I ve just bee reading up on the Golden Age and also on the Washington West Coast 30 tear tech boom, property boom. Many self made people got lucky by hitting an economic boom at the right time, combined with commitment.