Page 25 | Should I report my cousin's benefit fraud?

Jaehee · 24/02/2025 23:15

Flipflop223 · 24/02/2025 22:54

I just saw your chart. Are you fielding this in support of your argument? Because the data I’m looking at is (when I was a child between 3-4% of the working population was claiming benefits) and that has shot up to 8% at present and forecast to rise to 9%.

That entirely supports my argument.

Is it really the case that with all the modern advances in healthcare and rises in living standards overall that nearly 10% of us are unable to work due to illness or incapacity? Or is there an attitudinal change that we’re too anxious to work, or too sad or whatever - work is seen as optional now and people think why would I work when I can just get benefits.

Incidentally i do also wonder why people don’t have their income protection insurance so they don’t have to milk the state.

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I'm not entirely sure what your argument is, and you haven't provided any evidence to support any of your claims.

I think you are confusing incapacity benefits with disability benefits. Incapacity benefits are designed to replace income for people whose illness makes it difficult for them to work, i.e. the 'entitled work shy' as you call them. Disability benefits are designed to help with the additional cost of having a disability, regardless of whether someone is in work or not. PIP is a disability benefit, not an 'entitled work shy' benefit. The percentage of people claiming incapacity benefits in 2023-24 was 7%, which was ~0.5% lower than in 2000.

Flipflop223 · 24/02/2025 23:20

Wow. Rich husband. Google paid quite a bit in tax in 2022 (£59m). And in 2021 (£201m) come to think of it. Your husband really pays quite a bit of tax, doesn’t he. Impressive.

Should I report my cousin's benefit fraud?

XenoBitch · 24/02/2025 23:26

Greeherbs · 24/02/2025 23:10

I’m so sorry for the loss of your friend. Such a tragic story.

I just wonder, do these people have no concern about the karma they may be inviting upon themselves with all this rubbish they’ve been spouting. Mental illness can happen at any point in life.

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Thanks. She was the sweetest person. Wanted to help everyone, and very much wanted to beat her demons. But anorexia is such an awful illness that comes with it's own sheer will that will overcome yours. She wanted to be a vet one day.

And yes, mental illness can happen at anytime. You can be just one traumatic event away, prolonged stress, or post-partum depression spiralling, to having your life turned upside down and finding yourself at the mercy of the mental health care system. You don't have to have some genetic element or link in the family for this to happen either. No one is immune. No one.

Flipflop223 · 24/02/2025 23:27

Jaehee · 24/02/2025 23:15

I'm not entirely sure what your argument is, and you haven't provided any evidence to support any of your claims.

I think you are confusing incapacity benefits with disability benefits. Incapacity benefits are designed to replace income for people whose illness makes it difficult for them to work, i.e. the 'entitled work shy' as you call them. Disability benefits are designed to help with the additional cost of having a disability, regardless of whether someone is in work or not. PIP is a disability benefit, not an 'entitled work shy' benefit. The percentage of people claiming incapacity benefits in 2023-24 was 7%, which was ~0.5% lower than in 2000.

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There’s little point taking the time to provide a well reasoned argument on mumsnet….

Devon23 · 25/02/2025 11:17

If he gets high mobility the pip payment is taken for the car. To get high rate you need a mass of medical evidence from professionals. I reckon he knows how bitter you all are and is getting a kick out of ending you up. But by all means report your family if it makes u feel better. Karma will serve you well.

K90 · 25/02/2025 11:28

“Put in place some insurance for yourself” what planet are you even on you middle class tosser? Some people can’t feed their kids never mind protecting their lousy income with over priced daylight robbery insurance. Get real !

CleverButScatty · 25/02/2025 11:53

XenoBitch · 24/02/2025 21:24

No, they did not get up and work in the past. They were shut away in asylums.

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Or killed themselves, or drank to excess and be and beat/abused family and spouses.
The world is also more complex if you area struggling. Navigating everything being online, not being able to speak to someone, needing maths and English qualifications for basic jobs, jobs wanting more than ever from staff, lack of job security and predictably.
People always struggled with mental health but the world was a simpler place (not easier, but definitely simpler).
My parents and grandparents are consistently horrified at the demands and working hours of my job. But everyone around me is the same.

CleverButScatty · 25/02/2025 12:02

Jaehee · 24/02/2025 23:15

I'm not entirely sure what your argument is, and you haven't provided any evidence to support any of your claims.

I think you are confusing incapacity benefits with disability benefits. Incapacity benefits are designed to replace income for people whose illness makes it difficult for them to work, i.e. the 'entitled work shy' as you call them. Disability benefits are designed to help with the additional cost of having a disability, regardless of whether someone is in work or not. PIP is a disability benefit, not an 'entitled work shy' benefit. The percentage of people claiming incapacity benefits in 2023-24 was 7%, which was ~0.5% lower than in 2000.

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Exactly, many PIP claimants work. It is designed to cover additional costs incurred by your disability or health problem.
E.g. if someone needs to eat particular foods for a health condition, needs continence products, therapy, mobility aids, special footwear, devices for hearing, help with cleaning.
My friend has some permanent health conditions as a legacy of aggressive cancer and treatment (thankfully she has been in remission for a number of years)(think lymphoedema affecting mobility, long term trauma so she accesses therapy, physio aids, can't use public transport because of mobility issues and fatigue, needs her big shop delivered for similar reasons so can't just shop cheaply at Aldi etc, wears shoes from an expensive brand for people with foot issues, uses more heating as she gets cold easily, weekly cleaner because she is excessively fatigued after a full day of work).
Her PIP allows her to pay for the things she needs to be able to continue working and living an independent life hence the name, Personal independence payment. In fact it probably doesn't cover all of her additional expenses but gives her a fighting chance.
There is a lot of ignorance on this thread.

Fredthered · 22/03/2025 21:13

I applied for pip I have numerous conditions that affect my daily living I was refused pip I sent a manander appeal that was turned down I went to pip tribunal was turned down i didn't have to lie I had to give up work due to my conditions I worked all of 37 years now 55 it took 2 half years in total the thing I know people with no medical record gets pip full amount it really pissed me off

Skippydoodle · 22/03/2025 21:25

GreatAmberSnake · 20/02/2025 09:35

Hi everyone - I'm having a bit of a moral dilemma and looking to get everyone's opinions.

My M34 cousin doesn't work, he claims PIP. I'm not that familiar with how it works but he says he's on the highest level available, and there's even talk of him getting given a car. He openly boasts at every opportunity about the extreme exaggerations and outright lies he put on his PIP application, and calls me and other members of the family idiots for working when we could just get our money from PIP like he does.

If they investigated him they would easily find that some of his lies don't add up. I believe he genuinely does have depression and anxiety, but he has no physical issues. He said he put things like his partner needs to dress him in the morning (he split from his partner a couple of years ago), needs to wear velcro shoes as he can't tie laces etc. A home visit would show up some of his lies, and a call to the school (he's a weekend Dad but sometimes picks up/drops off his sons) or the Police (he's been arrested for drug offences a couple of times) would be further proof.

The main thing stopping me from reporting him is his depression. He has attempted suicide on at least one occasion, and I fear that a potential prison sentence for fraud could send him into a spiral. Even if no-one found out it was me, I really don't want that on my conscience.

If he didn't boast all the time I would just ignore it, it's not like it affects me directly, but it just winds me up every time he goes on about. Grrrr!! I do try to minimise contact with him but sometimes it's easier said than done. If he gets this car I think he'll become even more unbearable 😡

Help! What would you do?

How would you feel if you reported him, he spiralled and did commit suicide? Stay in your lane. You do you. Let others do them. Sometimes it’s best to just focus on your own things.

Hopper123 · 22/03/2025 21:26

As someone who was an unofficial carer from a young age for my mum who was incredibly physically unwell in the 90's but who refused to get benefits because of the stress of all the prodding and poking and having to prove her need constantly...and also now as someone who with my husband has to fork out many thousands of pounds in tax every year this infuriates me. Of course you should report it. This is exactly why those genuinely in need often don't get what they need and get tarred with a brush of fakers. Absolutely disgusting!!

LBFseBrom · 22/03/2025 21:49

GreatAmberSnake:
The main thing stopping me from reporting him is his depression. He has attempted suicide on at least one occasion, and I fear that a potential prison sentence for fraud could send him into a spiral. Even if no-one found out it was me, I really don't want that on my conscience.
If he didn't boast all the time I would just ignore it, it's not like it affects me directly, but it just winds me up every time he goes on about. Grrrr!! I do try to minimise contact with him but sometimes it's easier said than done. If he gets this car I think he'll become even more unbearable 😡
...........
Don't report him, please. He has attempted suicide more than once.

Do tell him not to boast about it! He should keep it to himself.

Furrybutts · 22/03/2025 22:17

Agix · 20/02/2025 09:57

Fed up of people saying PIP is difficult to claim. It's NOT.

It is only difficult to claim if you're not prepared to lie.You will be scrutinised and the assessors will try to catch you out when you're being honest, and often succeed in twisting your words and putting you off claiming because you're unwell and can't be dealing with this bullshit.

People who are prepared to lie and continue lying and fighting decisions that go against them will quite easily get PIP. Because they're happy to keep lying and scoring the points.

You do need medical evidence, but most medical evidence for mental health conditions is all about what you have reported to your doctor. Your doctor can only write down what you say your symptoms are. Your doctor doesn't live with you and has to believe you when you say you're so depressed you need help to get dressed. So that's what will go on your official reports and "medical evidence".

If you're prepared to lie, and make a part time job of claiming PIP by tracking which lies you have told your medical professionals and the PIP assessors, it is NOT hard to get PIP. You just need to learn the points system, and lie to your doctors and specialists and on the PIP form. These people also have people to lie for them, friends or family, pretending to have to provide care.

If you have genuine struggles, which you are genuinely trying to recover from and work towards getting better from, the PIP assessors will zero in on the bits where you seem capable and independent. You'll feel like shite spending so much time and energy on trying to claim this benefit and going through assesaments. You'll feel embarrassed and ashamed of how badly your health effects you, you'll struggle to talk about it. And you won't get PIP and will stop trying.

Not so with people who lie and make a job of it. They have all the time and energy in the world to keep going until they get the benefit.

The assessment process is easy for liars, who actually have the health to battle through the system, and very difficult for people genuinely unwell and trying to live life who don't have it in them to fight it.

Edited

^all of this.
I have been (genuinely) claiming PIP at the lower rate for 6 years.
At my last review I was awarded the higher rate for both, without a medical because they said they had contacted my GP and his account of my condition was enough.
I haven't been to any GP in 6 years, and this this GP is from my new practice which I have never been to.

I could easily have just continued to claim at the higher rate 'til my next review, but didn't as it is morally wrong.

I also have a friend with nothing wrong with him AT ALL who performed for his medical, made up conditions and the help he needs etc. His GP must not have been contacted for evidence, because the only times he has seen his GP was for a chest infection and tennis elbow.

So, it does happen that not everyone has to jump through hoops.